Feminist Parenting of Boys MAY Bookclub: Jenni Murray's "That's My Boy!"

StewieGriffinsMom - I agree, am trying desperately to flick through to find the bit I was thinking of but I can remember reading a bit where she was trying to big up boys by putting down girls and thinking - why do people have to do that - constantly pit them against each other? Why can't both boys and girls be brilliant and unique? But then I guess it's hard not to in today's society because there are so many boy vs girls stereotypes in the media it's just exhausting. Thanks to that bloody Mars vs Venus book....

hullo all, sorry I'm late

I've read about a third and it's been a bit of an eye opener for me as I've been concentrating on gender stereotyping being detrimental to girls without realising the impact on my 9 yr old DS at all. I am going to try harder to just let him be himself, and also to talk to him about more stuff.

The other useful point was the fine line between introducing a feminism upbringing for the children without denigrating men as a species in front of DS, which might lead him either to reject my point of view, or feel inadequate about himself.

Porn in house would be a definite no from me too.
I remember hearing a nice man on Radio 4 saying that over 90% of porn contains images of violence against women. That is seriously gobsmacking to me. I mean if that's true then how can people NOT see the connection between porn and violence to women?

DS is still only 9. When we walk into the petrol station and there's the spread-legged women on the covers (staring right at us from the not at all invisible top shelf) my DS just goes "Yuk , that is sooooo disgusting!" How I wish he'd stay like that forever .....sigh..

Its a bit tricky here as we live in an army town, lots of the parents at DD's (and DS's school in a few years) are army parents and there is quite a heavy army presence on the street. I don't think I would buy realistic guns either, but swords and shields are a definitely possibility and we already have a couple of water pistols (that don't look like guns, but still). My mother allowed us cap guns as children and my dad had an air rifle but the number one rule (whether the gun was made of lego or a finger or was real) was never to point it at somebody and this was very strictly enforced.

I agree with her stance about video game violence as well and to a certain extent TV although we allow some fantasy violence in things like Doctor Who when we are there with them to talk it through.

Porn is a no-no. Absolutely not.

I'm looking forward to the conversation about porn with DH... and how we handle this with DS. He has access to a computer and a personal stash, which I nearly left him for on discovery, before concluding pretty much every bloke in the western world with internet access would have one: so how do we square zero tolerance? I am tolerant, in that I turn a blind eye: I have my own sins, vices and secrets from him so can't throw stones. I also accept that DH came to the online stuff late enough in his sexual education to understand it does not represent real women, or real life, and that the women are exploited. But handling the hypocrisy? Crikey. That's a big conversation.

I read DoG alongside this, and agree DoG spoke to me more clearly. However, it would depend on who i was offering this book to: amongst some in my circle Jenni would have a good cachet and brand and she talks with less fury than I picked up from Cordelia Fine. Cordelia's is much more my style, I could almost feel her fingers hitting the keyboard as she typed about the flaws in some of the "research", but I'd definitely think about giving my mum JM to read so she can help reinforce what I do at home.

The whole issue of violent toys is a big dilemma because whilst I agree with her zero tolerance view in theory, in reality I feel like a real stick in the mud when I discuss with DS what guns are really for and the damage they do.

I think there's a real difference though because bright plastic kiddie toy guns and the ones that look realistic - like an AK47, I don't think I'd let DS have that anymore than I'd buy DD a pole dancing kit (if I had a DD).

*was because it was less fact-based

I liked it too, in general, but I did find it hard to get up the enthusiasm to read it whereas I had no problems with Delusions of Gender. I don't know how much of this was it was less fact based that DoG and more of a personal view on childrearing. A lot of it chimed with my own personal opinions and I didnt have too many 'wow. revelation.' moments.

I was however shocked by the study though that said one in ten men would rape a woman if they thought no-one would find out (p 87 in my copy) and I did like her ideas about challenging the male stereotypical behaviour.

How does everyone else feel about her ideas about violent toys and violence on TV- should we ban it completely or allow it so we can talk about it and explain it? What about porn and other distasteful material like rap music?

OK: here goes. First time doing anything like this, please be nice!

Practical, readable, pragmatic. Jenni's real-life approach and mix of research and ?war stories? spoke to me in a way some of the more academic texts may not do so. I loved reading her 2 paragraph demolition of Steve Biddulph in the introduction which presumably led to his rather sneery amazon review, and the way she willingly threw a lot of other accepted ?wisdom? out of the window eg the chapter long rebuttal of the cliché ?boys will be boys?; and as Joaninha says in the schoolboys chapter too.

Later in the book I became more frustrated, maybe because it's dealing with things that are a long way off for me, but also where much has dated somewhat since publication, eg talking up new legislation and parliamentary intent in the UK which I presume is of little use to those outside the UK, and which seems somewhat idealistic in our cold new regime. I also found that whilst Jenni acknowledged that the whole book could be seen as something of a proud exhibition of her brilliant boys and the great job, feeling her way, that she and her partner had done whilst raising them, didn't make the impression this started to give me towards the end very much less annoying.

I've already started making practical use of the techniques suggested in this and other books: eg checking the adjectives I apply to the rapidly growing month old blue-dressed specimens of my AN group, and even in a discussion with DH this evening about Ken Clarke's ill advised comments on rape using some of the ideas Jenni suggests for how he (gulp) might broach the subject at the right time with DS.

Hi all! Yeah that sounds like a good idea - I guess we all just chip in!

I mean I really liked it, especially the "Schoolboys" chapter because it showed how the "boy crisis" is not as bad as everyone likes to make out, but I have to say I found it a tad idealistic in that JM has a good feminist hubby, a nanny and a fab job - and couldn't relate to all of it.

But it was definitely interesting.

Righto. Multi tasking just: completing fish & chips so will get some thoughts down. And prepare for comment!

Not sure Dizzy, I havent done this before either. I guess we could start with what our personal impressions are about the book (in my case minus the last 50 pages which I havent finished)

Evening all. So, how does this normally work?

I've just about managed a third, so will be there but prob late due to soccer training (DS, not me)

I've read half of the book but have been distracted by the fact that DC have both been unwell since friday. I'll try and read as much as I can before 8pm but I dont think I'll be in sparkling form, especially as they have passed it on to me.