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Original poster

Pls arbitrate in a row with DH as to who 'owns' our company.. (long - sorry..)

73 replies

howdidthishappenthen · 09/05/2011 11:21

Before we were married both my husband and I worked - he was self employed, and I employed. I was originally the higher earner, then for 6 months or so whilst we were dating I subsidized him (he lived rent and bills free in my house) whilst he set up his company. The company then grew massively, and we moved into a bigger house, this time him subsidizing me (his bigger income now paying more of the bills and refurb costs).

Then we married in 2006, I fell pregnant straight away, and after a lot of rows with my employer, left quickly (and ended up winning a fortune in a discrimination case, but that?s another story) and joined my husband working in the company he?d set up.

One of the things we immediately did was set up (as a separate company) a new division offering other services to his existing clients. We used an ?off the shelf? company he already owned as the vehicle for this. The business idea for this company was his. I did the financial forecasts, wrote the T&Cs and the sales plan, and employed and trained the staff that set it up.
I worked in our 2nd company for 6 months until I had the baby, then took 9 months maternity leave before coming back in late 2008. I have since run this company on a day to day basis with little involvement from my husband (he runs the other ventures we have, so he contributes equally financially, just via a different route).

Anyway (FINALLY she reaches the point..) we have an ongoing point of tension between us that because he ?owns? the Companies House entity and he had the original idea to sell these services, he always wants to be known as ?Founder and Managing Director?; I get instead to be an employee (any title I want, but just an employee)

This grates me enormously ? I feel that as I was in on day 1, I did the legwork to get the company up and running, I have run it (or at least 80% ish) on a day to day basis for 3 years of the 3.5 years it has been in existence, and as a married couple we theoretically own everything together (even if individual assets are recorded in separate names) it?s at least as much mine as his. He says that on paper it?s his, the idea was his, so that?s the way it is and why do I want to pretend otherwise as it would be a lie?

Am I being petty? Does it really matter? I just HATE that whevever the subject comes up publically as to who is the ?boss? in the company, he NEEDS it to be him. I employ the staff, I sign up new clients, I do the banking and finances, I deal with subcontractors. In my mind, we should either both be known as Directors, or if we're going to bloody well insist on their begin only one, the MD should be me.

He thinks I'm really annoying for being bothered about job titles etc when we all share the money anyway and we aren't breaking up (on the contrary, we're very happy together), so what does it matter? ARGHHHHHH. Am I making a big deal about nothing? And if so why am I seething every time it comes up?

OP posts:
dittany · 09/05/2011 15:21

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Original poster
howdidthishappenthen · 09/05/2011 15:14

But seriously guys, of course I can withdraw my labour and go off and do something else. And over time I would be successful. It would take me a while to get up and running though. And if I exit our company, he will immediately say I'm not entitled to any of the income any more and ask how I plan to make my financial contribution to our very expense lifestyle. I KNOW this makes him a wanker, but forcing the conversation down this road is not leading to a happy place. Maybe I need to look into mediation. That's what I'd do if this were an actual discussion between pure business partners.

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dittany · 09/05/2011 15:09

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ElephantsAndMiasmas · 09/05/2011 15:09

I think he has come to assume that you will work for him, as his underdog is business terms, probably partly because all this started when you were pregnant, unemployed and vulnerable. Maybe he thinks he did you a favour. But right now it is you that is doing him a favour by continuing to lend him your expertise, your time and your organisational skills on a day to day basis. I really think you need to make him realise that you are a separate entity to him, you have options now about where to go and what to do, and you are only prepared to continue to benefit the company by your presence if you get what you want.

catinthehat2 · 09/05/2011 15:07

... I should add, there is not a damn thing anyone can do about it when you decide to withdraw your labour from your current company where you are an employee.

Original poster
howdidthishappenthen · 09/05/2011 15:04

Fair point Dittany. The answer is prob a couple of days work into it, at least. BUT psychologically, I also don't want to cast myself in the position of going to him 'cap in hand' with a proposal him to accept or reject.

A plan B would involve me taking a sum of money of equal value to the value of the company from our capital, investing it myself in my own name, and going to work in that enterprise instead. If he wants our current company so badly, I guess he could scale back his other interests go back into it. It would be an odd solution because he's neither qualified in the field not interested in working in it. It's me who understands and likes the work. He's much happier doing what he does now. I really can't forecast how this is going to pan out..

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ElephantsAndMiasmas · 09/05/2011 15:03

I like it a lot, catinthehat2.

Your anger and - perhaps even more - upset that the man you love and trusted is refusing to acknowledge your importance and value is really coming through. You need to think like the businesswoman you are to sort this out.

dittany · 09/05/2011 14:57

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catinthehat2 · 09/05/2011 14:57

I don't get all this asking permission and having little discussions to make everyone feel better.

Get together with your accountant this week, set up a new £1 company to run the business you deal with, you are sole proprietor, grand high panjandrum, whatever. Let the other one lapse as you move the whole show across. The lapse can happen as fast/slow as you wish.

You can make it as tax efficient as you wish, you can do what you want. But if you want to run the show, run the show.

dittany · 09/05/2011 14:53

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dittany · 09/05/2011 14:52

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DandyLioness · 09/05/2011 14:51

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Original poster
howdidthishappenthen · 09/05/2011 14:50

Right. I need to calm down. Hysterical anger is not a good start to any negotiation. This is my husband, I love him. He is not deliberately trying to upset me here. He has his emotional and practical attachments to his own side of this argument - it is a touchy subject for him and for some possibly valid reasons. It is not worth breaking up the company over, or shaking an otherwise excellent marriage and business partnership. There WILL be a way to negotiate a path through this. We just need to find it.

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dittany · 09/05/2011 14:50

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Original poster
howdidthishappenthen · 09/05/2011 14:47

And Dandy, I'm not horrible to him about the fact he didn't like being a SAHP - I didn't like it either when I did it, and I was impressed that he had the backbone to even try. Lots of men wouldn't. But I can only keep on handing out Brownie Points for his 3 month stint for so long, and he's really milked it to death now..

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Original poster
howdidthishappenthen · 09/05/2011 14:44

No - he knows in GREAT DETAIL that I did not thrive when I tried being a SAHP and that it is no more an option for me going forward than it is for him. With our daughter was born by c-section, I was back in the office daily with her asleep in a baby carrier on my front within 3 weeks of the birth, ffs.

Goddammit WHY does he need to make such a big deal out of publicly acknowledging what he's built together with me .

I'm making jokes about this but I almost feel teary about it. It's just so bloody UNFAIR. There is NO WAY my contribution is less than his - I was a director of a £200m turnover company before I joined him. I'd won fucking NATIONAL AWARDS for being a ground-breaking woman in business. I WAS INVITED TO MEET THE QUEEN because of the things in business I did (and regardless of what you think of monachy, that doesn't happen a lot for men OR women).

I know that this is all in the past and in business you're only as good as what you do now but goddammit I AM good at my job now. All the skills i had then working for other people I use now in our own company,but with 5 years more experience. AND I ONLY EQUAL RECOGNITION AND SECURITY TO THAT WHICH HE HAS.

SOBS.

How the HELL can we have equality when even the men we love in our own homes are such fucking passive-aggressive STICK IN THE MUDS over basic stuff. Why make me so ANGRY in my own HOUSE about OUR business.

This is not boding well for a calm discussion later.

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DandyLioness · 09/05/2011 14:37

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dittany · 09/05/2011 14:30

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ElephantsAndMiasmas · 09/05/2011 14:30

And I'm not surprised you had face-composure problems!

Maybe you could assert that you are the only parent of your children, because you put in the original nutrients. He can be known as a kind of sub-parent if he likes, or a glorified childminder?

dittany · 09/05/2011 14:29

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ElephantsAndMiasmas · 09/05/2011 14:24

Fine, he has ego issues with his work. But you're his wife - not his rival, not his sworn enemy or his business competitor but his partner in life and work. So he needs to recognise that your contribution has been as great as his. Otherwise he is keeping his fragile ego alive purely at your expense, and that's just petty.

Original poster
howdidthishappenthen · 09/05/2011 14:03

Sorry I'm I'm being unclear - talking it through with you guys is helping me clarify what I DO want, so this is helpful for the discussion later.

I want 50% asset share in this company and I want an equal or higher status job title in the business I run, and he can have a 50% asset share and the higher status job title in the business he runs.

(BTW I also struggle to construct a suitably sympathetic face when discussing how awful he found it to be a SAH-parent. If you've been in a high-status job, it can be bloody tricky to stop and wipe bums but sometimes that's just the way the world is.

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dittany · 09/05/2011 13:54

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Original poster
howdidthishappenthen · 09/05/2011 13:45

OK - so one more factor that may/may not be relevant (hope you all don't mind me using you as a sounding board, but I want to get my own frame of mind straight about this before I bring it up with him - you are all being very helpful Smile)

DH's original company - the one that funded this little offshoot - went into receivership in 2009 and it lost everything. It was the income from this offshoot venture that saw us through those dark-days, even though it was only one tenth the size of his original company. It has grown a bit more since, and we have a couple of other new ventures doing interesting things (these are the bits he runs now) so there's now plenty of money to sustain our lifestyle. BUT this offshoot company is the last vestiges of the 'empire' (in his mind) he set up and then lost. He had an awful time coming to terms with the fact he'd lost it all, and found if difficulty status-wise being a SAHD for a couple of months straight afterwards when we had no childcare or money to pay for it, whilst I went in and ran company b. All of this is def a part of why he won't handover shares to me - these shares are the last tiny bits of the big company he made and lost. But I've been being sensitive about this for two years and I think now he should just GET THE FUCK OVER IT, look happily at the new things we've built since and recognise that we did it together and can both give each other public credit for that.

AND breathe...

Can you see I'm psyching myself up to tackle him on this later and trying to get my stresses out on you lot now so that I can be calm and constructive with him and not get all RANTY.....

OP posts:
garlicbutter · 09/05/2011 13:26

As you said, all assets are jointly owned while you're married. So it doesn't matter whose name is on the bank account some money went into. It does, however, matter what status you have wrt the companies - both now, from a credibility pov, and in the event of a divorce. HIBU.

Like your other respondents, I'm very cross with him for insisting on this and for turing it round to make you look like the unreasonable one! Either it's unimportant (in his eyes) - in which case he may as well give you equality to make you happy - or it matters like hell to him, in which ccase he's purposel;y trying to block you out.

Worth a major row, imo. Good luck!