Ways the TV series 'Friends' was anti-feminist

Darlene O'Queenofthefeministworldandbeyond

You say that it is difficult to have a debate when you have to wait two days for a response. I have to say that I find it difficult to have a debate when I am told that I am not allowed to have a debate and 'It is', presumbly because Oh great and wonderful one say so.

Joeys naivety is used as a plot device like a Greek chorus all the way through the series.

That's why it's clever. EVEN Joey knows what all the watchers know.

Joey used to be insightful, just a bit shallow. He must have had a bang on the head at some point because later series showed him as idiotic. By the end all the characters were caricatures really.

Joey is clearly shown never to know anything! Why would he know that?

Rachel is shown as sloppy and lazy when it comes to clearing up the apartment. In one episode she's wearing rubber gloves pretending to wash up but reading instead.

By that token women not wanting to clean is normalised because it's in a television show.

The way Monica was written, it was plain for everyone to see she really wanted marriage and a family, and the sperm donor thing was a rash decision.

The way I saw it was Joey saying to hold out for what she really wanted.

And you were censored for rudely telling me to fuck off, twice.

I didn't say Friends was a feminist show, but I think you're seeing some things that just aren't there.

Darlene, really? How bonkers!

She doesn't go for a baby with Richard because she doesn't want him being a martyr about it, I think? And because the long-term script was not going to have her sprogging with an old old man.

She waits for marriage because she holds to the fairy tale ending that you have babies with the man who walks you down the aisle.

AND ANOTHER THING - the men are all turned on by lesbian sex. The women use this when it suits them. Monica and Rachel argue, but never unattractively - they just flick at each other's foreheads, or roll about looking fit.

In my opinion Joey talked her out of it because he KNEW her (like they all really knew each other). He knew she was just reacting to her break-up like with the mad jam making and shopping at the docks at 5am (same episode).

There are many, many examples where the female characters pointed out the 'real' desire or need in the male characters too.

That is the problem with taking plot devices in isolation.

As part of a bigger picture of young adults carving out a future in an extraordinarily rich city without much help from parents, after the previous excess of the 80's, during a nineties recession, replacing blood family with friends, in a more liberal environment

• it's pretty interesting.

As social commentary it's a very interesting phenomenon.

Swiper did not "have it deleted" I certainly requested it's deletion.

swiper, exactly re Chandler's parents divorce. All I said is that it played a part in his issues with relationships which it blatently did imo. I don't understand why Darlene interprets this as blaming the mother. Also the reason I said that I don't think Monica's cleaning obsession is shown as the norm is that other women on the show do not have the same obsession. Surely we're being shown a variety of women some with cleaning obsessions (the minority) and some without cleaning obsessions (the majority). Therefore if we were going to interpret this literally into our views of RL we would assume that the miinority of women have a cleaning obsession while the majority do not, which is probably accurate.

Messages only get deleted for personal attacks. Shame you can't take responsibility for your own posts.

Darlene, you told me to fuck off. I know you think you make the rules here, but you don't.

You, personally, told me to fuck off. If you want to debate here then debate within the rules of the forum.

Okey dokey.
So then, if Monica was so desperate to have a baby, any baby, then why did she turn down Richard, and why did she not pursue using a sperm donor when she was with Chandler.

Why did she wait until she had the marriage, and have a baby on equal terms with her husband?

Was it really because a 5 minute talk a man gave her?

If a single friend of yours who you knew wanted marriage and a family, at 28 suddenly announced they were going to have a baby with a donor when they'd never mentioned it before, you wouldn't think to question it?

How come Joey knew what she wanted better than she did? That's a bit odd.

Darlene, you do realise that the only person derailing this thread is you, don't you?

As a total aside, didn't you used to be darleneconnor? Was that you? The poster who wrote that they felt sorry for people who had children that were the same sex, because they didn't have the full 'set'?

Strange thing for a feminist to write, that was.

I'm not trying to have a fertility debate, I'm merely telling you what was said in the show. Monica had an 'inhospitable environment' and Chandler had a low sperm count or low motility, I think. No suggestion was made that it was her own fault for not having a child at 28. You don't need to be quite so hostile, if you want people to discuss your theory and not just blindly agree with you.

There was a chance Monica could get pg, but not with Chandler's baby. She decided that if she couldn't be pg with his baby, she didn't want to be pg with anyone elses, so they adopted.

Joey talked her our of single motherhood, because it wasn't what she wanted, and he knew it. What she wanted was to get married and have a family.

She also turned down the chance to have a baby with Richard, who although not keen, agreed to it.

"I haven't seen any anti-feminists on this thread"

Laurie. Stick around.