First baby for a feminist, expecting a boy: where do I start??

I was told I was having a boy, the penis of the boy was pointed out to me in 3 seperate scans by 3 different Drs. I could never see it myself and consequently gave birth to a perfectly formed girl. Who has an interest in Dinosaurs.

My general recommendation on having a baby is do not read parenting books. I think in general most of them present fairly questionable opinion as fact and raise anxiety completely unnecessarily. I'm a complete bookworm too and love pondering the 'whys' of how things are.

I find with books about parenting boys vs girls the best thing to do is see if they have a section on "mums and boys/girls" and judge for yourself how sexist that feels. I've picked up a few in bookshops and managed to up my blood pressure considerably in no time at all as I see stuff on the 'unique bond a mother has with her dd/ds" followed by totally anecdotal twaddle as to why women are biologically primed to behave in totally stereotyped ways. One I looked at the other day was going on about 'womanism' (WTF) after attempting to debunk a totally unrecognisable description of feminism.

My children have at times been very very close to a number of stereotypes, which has worried me somewhat, but parenting is a long haul game and I think that so long as you raise your children to ask why (and answer them as honestly as you can) then as they grow up you start to have really thought provoking conversations with your children all about how they feel and think and behave.

elliott and anyone else who fancies joining us, the Feminist Parenting of Boys bookclub is on that link, if I haven't fluffed it. We're throwing around some ideas about possible book options, and the more, the merrier!

Congratulations, I'd just treat your DS as an individual and you and your partner try to be good role models.
They all have different interests DS1 (2.11) loves the play kitchen, mops and hoovers at playgroup so we've bought him a selection of these but he will invariably head for the cars and trains so we have quite a few of those too. DS1 was given a baby doll before DS2 was born and he totally ignored it until we bought a (pink) buggy to go with it - as soon as it had wheels it became an interesting toy for him! You can't force them to play with things they don't want to but sometimes you can nudge them in the right direction.

Noblegiraffe - aw, do I have to?!? I mean it's hard to fake this stuff if you are not good at it or genuinely interested. If you are by all means go for it, but otherwise it seems a bit forced.

I do the IT wrangling and construction toys, but wHenever I show my football 'skills' can only go to reinforce the sterotype that women are rubbish at football

Aaaagh see I am the video games expert in my house, DP plays abbit of Wii that's it, I set up his DS, help him with levels, get him games etc. Glad me loafing about playing DS is part of my feminist agenda, hadn't thought about it like that!

I'm just marking my place as I have a son and am interested.

There's a lot here about getting the Dad to do domestic stuff around your son, but no one seems to have mentioned you doing traditionally male stuff with him.

Have a kick-about with him. Mow the lawn. Do some car maintenance. That's got to be a good influence too.

My experience has been (as others have said) that whatever DS sees DH doing, he wants to do as well (whilst he is small anyway). So my DH does washing up, with DS aged 2 standing on big chair beside him at sink, washing up alongside him and they also do sweeping and tidying up (this wasn't a result of a deliberate feminist thing as such :) - just that DS saw DH doing it, wanted to do it too and cried if he wasn't allowed to!). But they also have teddy fights where they chuck teddies at each other and they go on trips to the DIY shop in the car (this counts as man stuff in my book - I never chuck teddies or do any DIY!).

So in the small stage they imitate the main male carer. If you have DH get him a pair of Marigolds!

Congratulations! I am a feminist and have 2 boys, The best thing you can show them is, that by example, girls are as good and adept as boys. Mind you when DS1 wants help with his DS (nintendo btw) I do say that that is a daddy thing.........!

I can't find it- can someone direct me? Thanks!

It's taken me ages to find that book club thread, blackcurrants - I didn't realise there was a whole new section!

elliot - yes yes yes! Come over to the Feminist Book Club section and help us decide what to read first!

Good to hear it Goblin! I must admit I'm living in hope as DS is only 2, so I have no idea if it will continue into the teenage years, but I hope so :)

'I'm trying to bring up DS (and any future children I might have, girls or boys) to have the idea that household jobs are the responsibility of everyone who lives there, and the share of the workload depends on each person's capability and other time commitments, nothing else. '

That's worked very well for us, DS is now 16 and DD is 20.

Can I join the 'feminist parenting of boys' book club? I would dearly love recommendations about bringing up boys that don't send my blood pressure sky high with their stereotypical over-generalisations!

I have two boys aged 7 and 9 and I would agree with whoever said that you become quite defensive about the constant negativity towards boys (particularly in relation to school and achievement). I almost feel relieved that so far the gender gap in attainment doesn't seem to hold boys back career wise you do have to put up with people saying things like 'well girls are just better' - I guess 50 years ago it would have been assumed boys were 'just better' but I would hope that we have moved on somewhat from such gross over-generalisations!

i think to come back to your original point, I actually think it is not YOU that will have the most influence on your son in relation to his gender attitudes, but his father. That is where the most powerful modelling will take place - so its really important that his dad can show him a range of potential roles, contributes to the nurturing and domestic work, and respects you!

My DH went part time when I went back to work and looked after the boys a day a week when they were little. So he's always been fully skilled up. I can't claim that he's perfect - I still end up holding onto the organisational threads and planning playdates/homework etc, but I think he's doing a pretty good job of role modelling so far!

If you are planning to breastfeed, make bathtime "Dad time" - preferably if he gets into the bath with your DS until he's old enough to go in by himself. It's lovely skin-to-skin oxytocin bonding time (like breastfeeding) and you can either join in by sitting by the bath watching them, being ready with the towel etc (like breastfeeding) OR you can go off and do something else while they have one on one bonding time (like breastfeeding )

I was going to say I'm not sure this is a feminist issue, but I think it is - breastfeeding is so often undermined by people suggesting (often as a first resort) that Dad can give bottles to "feel involved" when actually it's a lot more hassle (especially if you express) and can even interfere with breastfeeding. Leave the mama to do the mama thing (Unless you're going out obviously in which case it's different anyway)

Also - I'm trying to bring up DS (and any future children I might have, girls or boys) to have the idea that household jobs are the responsibility of everyone who lives there, and the share of the workload depends on each person's capability and other time commitments, nothing else. (And that looking after children is a commitment). So I get him involved in all the jobs that he possibly can, I try not to wave him off with a "Go and play, mummy's busy" - yes the jobs take twice as long, but I think it's worth it (and also, if we spend 1 hour collecting up washing, sorting it and putting it in the machine, say that would have taken 30 minutes on my own, I might have spent those other 30 minutes playing with him. This way, I get to spend an hour with him, AND we're doing something constructive. I lose none of my "me time" by letting him help with things.) Obviously sometimes I get narked when I'm trying to tidy up and he's taking it all out and throwing it around because he's 2 and that's what he does sometimes. But most of the time, it seems to work for now. He doesn't see tidying up, or cleaning, or cooking, as mummy's job, just as a task that needs to be done and everyone (well me and him since that's all there is) pitches in to help if they can.

I'm also really enjoying all the wisdom here - I feel like forewarned is forearmed, and I'm going to be enjoying the discussion in our Feminist Parenting of Boys bookclub books and just talking about it all. I've heard turdass's point about early school years and suddenly becoming a champion of boys from other mums, including my Dsis who was a key stage 1 teacher... it's going to be an interesting ride, that's for sure!

hi there i too have 3 boys and would agree with the previous poster: 0-5 is a doddle, once they start school, it is seriously challenging - largely because other people's kids spout all the crap about "pink is for girls" etc. I am constantly refuting this to my 6y old. I even bought him a nice dark pink shirt which he was happy to wear - until he turned up at an event wearing it and, literally as we walked in the door, one of the cool boys who he admires with witless parents ran past him shouting oooooh pink girlie girl. He was crushed. I don't know what the answer is, and like others say you don't need to worry about it yet (my 3y old would happily wear a tutu). All I do is constantly refute it and say things like "No, some boys are stronger/faster/whatever than some girls but many girls can run faster than many boys " etc etc I think it goes over his head at this age but I have trained him to say "I am a feminist" if anyone mention the pink is for girls thing .

TBH, I think it is actually far harder if you have girls - they are far more pressurised into silly gender stereotypes these days and I know many feminist type women at their wits ends with the girly-pink-makeup obsessiveness that seems to start at about 8!

If your son respects you then he will go on to respect other women.

I agree re the toy kitchen/wendy house thing. Anywhere I go with toys, all the boys are crammed round the toy kitchen.

I have two DSs. We got rid of out TV and that has cut out a lot of the sexist crap which was infiltrating our lives. (DS1 was picking up such shite as 'pink is a girl's colour etc).

On a separate note, it is worth knowing about how many boys learn and develop in the educational sense. I do think (as a feminist and teacher) that the state education system is quite pro-female and you may end up becoming a champion of wee boys (I know I have, quite unexpectedly). A couple of months ago DS1 who is in reception said to me, 'Mummy, can boys do all the things that girls can?' All the responsible 'jobs' in his class are done by the girls.

Anyway, good luck. Boys are amazing and I would say, paradoxically, more sensitive and in need of tender nurturing than many girls of the same age.

First of all congratulations.

You ask about a 'Primer'. I think the Primer has to be you. What you feel and think - not some book or web page.

We have two DSs and although neither me nor DW would say we are feminists we have very strong feelings about equality issues abd respect for others.

Our DSs are now age 9 and 11 and we have found that they sometmes bring home attitudes about. for example, the roles that girls and boys should play. When we hear them say something that goes against what we think and feel we challenge it and discuss it.

From my point of view, I also try to be a good example to DSs. i don't know if you live with a male parter but boys generally look up to and want to be like men. If you have a man around who can be a good role model, treats you with respect. feels the same as you on key issues and backs you up that will be a big help.

Congratualtions.
Second what everyone else has said about you and your DP modelling behaviour and allowing him to develop his personality as an individual rather than shoehorning him into typical boy expected behaviour.

However trust me (3 boys 7,5 and 2) that the hard work begins when he goes to school. That is when you really need to be alert in terms of bringing him up to believe the sexes are equal.

It would appear that once they get to school a lot of teachers are quite happy to allow gender stereotypes to be reinforced. Then they come home and tell you that they can't behave because they're a boy oh, and by the way, only girls can possibly be good. Grrr.

Don't worry though the first 5 years are easy (in this respect at least..)

Congrats btw OP (sorry!!)

also - my DS doesn't go to nursery and STILL prefers cars and trucks and dinosaurs.....but does love to push his he man around in his pink glittery baby buggy