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Original poster

Balancing educating others with being a shouty feminist....

34 replies

AnnieLobeseder · 03/05/2011 22:57

Hi ladies

Well, as happy as I am to have discovered feminism and to be thinking about feminist issues more, I have found that all my posts on Mumsnet now seem to be feminism-based, and I suspect I'm becoming something of a bore to the rest of MN Smile.

What worries me most is turning into one of the feminists who used to put me off identifying more closely with feminism, the shouty ones who tell you you're wrong and ignorant if you don't believe what they do.

And it's very hard, when you see something so clearly as sexist and oppressive while other women don't, not to shout at them and ask why they can't bloody well see what's before their eyes!!

Like the rash of threads about Mrs/Miss/Ms there have been lately. That's a subject I've always felt very strongly about, even before my recent feminist reawakening. I can see why some women blindly follow the social tradition to change their title to Mrs when they get married. But I cannot see how any woman can seriously examine the issue, think hard about what being called Mrs really means for women, and then happily go on being a Mrs anyway. I just can't.

So on those threads, I can feel myself getting little shouty, although I know I won't win anyone over that way.

On the other hand, if I encountered someone who felt very strongly that women should wear trousers and never wear make-up, I'd disagree strongly and say it doesn't make me less of a feminist if I occasionally want to look pretty. But a very militant extreme feminist might disagree - because although I personally am not oppressed enough to feel that a woman's look are so important that I can't go out without my 'face' on, other women are. So all make-up is bad to this fictional other feminist.

Extreme example but I hope you know what I mean.

So if women are saying that they personally are not oppressed and de-valued by being their DH's 'property' by calling themselves Mrs, even though it perpetuates ways to keep women subservient, should I accept that and not be endlessly frustrated with them?

I'm rambling. I hope someone can figure out what I mean.

I think what I'm trying to ask is, am I wrong to get so frustrated by women who happily live with sexist societal norms, because another feminist who has reached a 'higher level of enlightenment' might see me in just the same light?

At what point do you draw the line in trying to educate? Just make your point once and hope it sinks in? Keep debating? Get drawn into an argument about how women are their own worse enemies?

Is it something I'm likely to get better at with experience?

My heartfelt congratulations to anyone who can figure out what I'm trying to say here. It sounded much clearer in my head!

OP posts:
meditrina · 04/05/2011 09:10

I'd say that it's not helpful to look on it as education. That's not something possible really in context of other adults (unless they've signed up for classes from you).

It's not about being right or wrong it's about being persuasive. That means avoiding shoutiness, thinking about there the other person is coming from, and stating your case; and not expecting to see results in terms of immediate change, just in terms of getting your thoughts into the debate. Even this may well provoke an abreaction - especially if you say something that goes against the group-think of a thread - but the more thoughtful posters might just listen to what you are actually saying rather than seeing difference as hostile.

zikes · 04/05/2011 09:09

I feel inclined to argue with you about your wording: "it doesn't make me less of a feminist if I occasionally want to look pretty."

Cos to me, the implication is that a woman in her natural state of unmade-up-ness isn't pretty.

And if you think about that, it is quite a disturbing thought. If you'd said 'glammed up' or something, that'd be another thing. This isn't about me trying to make you throw away your make-up 'though. Grin

I think too often people get told they're being too loud/too strident when it's just that the people they're talking to aren't comfortable with what they're hearing and don't want to listen.

I wouldn't worry about being 'shouty'.

fluffles · 04/05/2011 09:01

to some people Mrs does not mean husband's property (whatever it used to mean) it means 'entered into a loving and equal partnership' to THEM.

just like to some people, make up and plucking is the worst expression of the patriarchy and to pander to it in any way is to show you're nothing but a sex-toy.

you need to accept that the things that you choose to shout out about are not the most important in an objective way, they are your subjective priorities.

JessinAvalon · 04/05/2011 08:57

It's not something I manage very well. I think that living your own life by the principles you believe in sets an example for others who may not have thought about it (eg the Ms/Mrs thing) and gives other people courage to follow.

The only frustrating thing about that though is that it operates on a long time scale and, like you, I want to shake people's shoulders and say 'don't you see??'

EvelynBakerLang · 04/05/2011 08:47

Snort at dittany.

dittany · 04/05/2011 08:40

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

AliceWorld · 04/05/2011 08:38

There isn't a hierarchy of feminists like that. There's individual people. How do you ever communicate your views to others? Do that. People use and like different approaches. The person that puts you off something, turns others on to something. Horses for courses. May well change over time with different experiences, but it takes all types.

dittany · 04/05/2011 00:04

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

littlesez · 04/05/2011 00:03

Whilst you think its ok to wear make up, another person may disagree. That doesnt make you wrong.

But same goes for the mrs thing surely?

At what point do you draw the line? Its really upto you how much energy you have! I mean there are many many issues you could fight for what you believe in all day if you choose but you would be exhausted.

your not wrong to be frustrated because of something you feel strongly about we all have stuff that gets us annoyed.