I'm sure many of you would have already seen/hear Dworkin's rape speech.....

breaking bad got me interested in Juarez, fantastic series doesnt glamourise anything. and such like focuses more on drugs violence towards men but I thought why do we hear so much about africa and nothing about here? Breaking bad drew alot of attention to it.

apparently it cost 3 million per episode becasue of the detail.

I know, so horrific.

Thanks for that- I will have a read.

oh, sorry, I realise the article I originally read simply included the Juarez incident while counting clusters of murders of women in the U.S as well since 1980. So that half a million wasn'T in Juarez alone.[

BUt actually, perhaps it doesn't matter. Because the article wasn't even counting ever single woman that had been murdered in the world, but rather only a few incidents it had collected for the article. IN other words, half a million is a gross underestimate for the amount of women who have actually been murdered by men over the past 20-30 years.

The short article I read was refering to Juarez, plus clusters of serial murder in Kansas

plus

serial murders in Albuquerque

plus

the Grim Sleeper serial killer in LA

The author of the article added the numbers up and it came to 500,000

Now imagine if she'd included the 2 murders a week in the uK alone too!

Really? Fuck.

Staying out of the side argument here, can somebody tell me more about these mass graves in Mexico? I am googling, but not finding the sort of numbers Sakura is talking about (and I can't c&p the provided link for some reason, sorry). It does appear that there is a shocking level of casual and uninvestigated violence though, much of it associated with drug trafficking. Sorry to ask to be spoon fed, but I'm not sure I've found the story Sakura means.

oh stop being stupid

I'm not minimising the real experiences, I'm challenging the massive exaggeration of very minor experiences, then the counting of those alongside serious experriences, adding them together and claiming that they are broadly similar. Its a bit like saying 'everyone experiences over 3000 serious accidents in their lifetime' because you are including splinters and grazes, then when someone challenges that saying 'Oh I see, you are saying that my father who was cut in two by a motorcycle was somehow only getting a splinter are you!!!' in response. Its just crazy, and it DOES add to a picture of fear and trepidation for women that isn't necessary. When I went to uni in a city I was amazed and elated that it was nothing like as dangerous going out and walking about as I had been led to believe. I was a frightened little mouse because I believed all that crap, and I was astonished at how women dared to go on gap years, to live with people they didn't know and get jobs and that fear controlled me for some time whilst other young women were gaining experience and enjoying themselves.

Sue thanks for posting that link. It seems that violence against women is just seen as par for the course, normal, and not really a crime - that's the drift I got from the article. It's so sad.

In the UK, anyway, the first part. Obviously there are large tracts of the world where if you are a woman these things are waiting for you eg when you go out to collect water for your children to drink.

I have never portrayed our world as rape, assault and murder waiting at every corner. I am a strong advocate of women giving two fingers to the "be afraid travel in gangs always get a cab" brigade, although I know many don't agree with me. Not least because women are most likely to be raped by someone that they know in a "safe" situation than by a stranger. And because I deplore that women are kept in a state of constant fear. If you are complaining about the message of constant fear, I suggest you start with the TFL cab advertising campaign, the police responses to recent high profile cases (women should continue to follow the usual advice and never travel alone after dark), and programs such as CSI. Don't look at me though, not something I'm doing.

I would also like to see the source of your statistics please that refute the ones being quoted on here. A link would be good. I would also like to repeat that the vast majority of women that I know have had (often more than once) a flashing incident, someone wanking at them, someone touching them intimately when they are on a bus or a train. That sort of thing. Do you seriously believe that women and girls should be "laughing off" these incidents rather than seeing them for what they actually are ie crimes. If you genuinely believe that the correct reaction for a 16yo girl to have to a man masturbating at her on a train carraige when there is no-one else around is to laugh it off, put it down to "clumsy adolescent behaviour" (how does that work for all the men who do this and are over about 17?) and think no more of it then we have nothing to talk about. I think that these incidents are matters for the police. They are crimes.

n fact in the mexican mass graves incidencts, most of the bodies were men. That is a perfect example of someone wanting everyone else to be fearful, feel unsafe and angry, when there is absolutely no need.

Juarez is notorious for femicides, its shocking more publicity isnt drawn to it.
I typed in femicide capital of the world and this link came up.
www.alterinfos.org/spip.php?article675

oh not mine - not so much now, but I used to have v. obvious nipples and boys would quite often brush past my breasts and give me little jolts!... I used to also do a bit of deliberate brushing myself when talking to a guy I fancied. I didn't think for a moment I was sexually assaulting him - but perhaps a book will be written one day which will make all the men go and 'realise' they have had a lifetime of being assaulted by women.....

What I'm pointing out is that 99% of your '3/4 of all women' could be bum squeeze, brushing past one's breasts pulling you in for a kiss when you didn't exactly want to - all things that happen when people are learning the boudaries and messing about - to later mix them all up for shock effect with putting a glass into your vagina and full unmisguided rape isn't helpful and does make women feel afraid untill they see through the stats and realised that rather than living in a world of sexual violence and death to women as portrayed by some of you here with rape, assault and murder awaiting at every corner - in fact, most of them have already had their experience of 'sexual assault', laughed it off as clumsy adolescent behaviour and forgotten about it.

Some women, though, often who call themseleves feminists, want us all to live in a world where we keep exaggerating the risk, re-living our past experiences and turning them into crimes and outrages, and believing that there are mass slaughters of women 'for fun' around the world.

In fact in the mexican mass graves incidencts, most of the bodies were men. That is a perfect example of someone wanting everyone else to be fearful, feel unsafe and angry, when there is absolutely no need.

"brushing nipples" sounds like something out of a soft core romance style book

In RL most women wear bras when they go out, and/or are in fairly warm places. You'd have to work pretty hard to locate nipples, let alone accidentally "brush" them

IME you're more likely to get a full and frank full-tit grab. The men in this neck of the woods don't seem to be the "brushing" types...