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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

TV for toddler - is ANYTHING suitable? I've veto'd Postman Pat, Peppa, Rosie ...

162 replies

FrozenNorthPole · 30/04/2011 21:56

... it's just all so incredibly pink & predictable. Have made a list of things that have been ruled out.

Postman Pat - men go out to work, women stay at home. Apart from traditional female roles / unskilled clerical (Mrs Goggins), and the needlessly butch female doctor.

Peppa - just ugh. So pink, so inane, have avoided most TV episodes but people keep buying us books. All females in dresses. Shit plotlines. Men Daddy Pigs go out to work. Mummy Pigs don't.

Rosie - a female heroine at last. But wait ... everything is covered in flowers and is pink. Female 'heroine' (and simpering smaller female) endlessly conciliatory and bow to others' whims. Petulant & disruptive boy plays football on his own.

In the night garden - would be okay apart from upsydaisy who is in no way okay. Oh, and the Pontipines / Wottingers.

Something Special - hmm, struggle with this one. Does Aunt Polly count as female character? Is Lord Tumble part of the higher echelons of the patriarchy?

Me too - shit.

Balamory - women in traditional female roles, men in traditional male roles.

Timmy time - ooh. Perhaps this one okay?

I may have overthought this. Have always had these feelings about the tv programmes but having recently acquired some proper patriarchy goggles I'm putting my foot down and trying to make more positive choices on DD1's (2.5 years) behalf.

Any views?

OP posts:
Thefearlessfreak · 01/05/2011 20:17

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NormanTebbit · 01/05/2011 20:16

I'm surprised he hasn't smacked Lola yet TBH

AyeRobot · 01/05/2011 20:15

What kind of role do you wish was modelled for boys, sails?

I love all the "stop thinking too much" posts that crop up on gender-related threads. They always come from posters who don't think much about anything, ever. (not you, sails, that was a general comment).

stressheaderic · 01/05/2011 20:15

Rastamouse?

NormanTebbit · 01/05/2011 20:14

I read a while ago that there was some criticism about the domination of boy characters on cbeebies. The BBC said their research had shown that while girls will watch male characters, boys are turned off by female characters, hence all the boys on TV.

Personally I think milkshake is an excellent strand of TV for kids, the genders are mixed up and stories often relate to childrens lives - Family is one good example.

Nothing will beat Why Don't You, The Red Hand Gang and Champion the Wonderhorse, though.

TimeWasting · 01/05/2011 20:13

Charlie from Charlie and Lola is lovely. He helps Lola, without patronising her.

nometime · 01/05/2011 20:13

If you are restricting the amount of viewing I doubt very much whether a pink episode or too of Peppa pig will do much harm. Dora the Explorer is quite OK - female explorer and some Spanish language too. If you really want to be on top of things what about the show that includes a lot of Makaton signing - can't think what it is called at the moment.

Shallishanti · 01/05/2011 20:12

what you need is Sesame Street
(not sure how you'd access it now though)
honestly it was completely fab when my lot were little

sails · 01/05/2011 20:08

As a mum of 2 boys I am also on the look out for good role models for them. But people are so into making characters pc and avoiding gender steriotypes that I think that it has gone the other way and now I often feel where are the good strong role models for BOYS? My ds1 aged 5 often comments that their are no men teachers at his school so he doesnt get it there and now it seems even tv has an absense of boy role models.

SybilBeddows · 01/05/2011 20:05

I wind my dh up something rotten by saying in a MummyPig voice 'Oh Daddy Pig you are silly.'

greencaveman · 01/05/2011 20:03

Oh sorry, just read your most recent post!

greencaveman · 01/05/2011 20:02

You are overthinking it.

If you watch Peppa enough, you'll realise that actually it is Daddy Pig who is portrayed as an absolute ninny.

He gets a Christmas tree that won't fit in the car (by a long way).

He flips his pancake onto the ceiling (Mummy Pig retrieves it!).

He gets lost and they have to phone Granny Pig and Grandpa Pig.

etc

Your daughter will want to be able to discuss relevant matters with her peers. I'm sorry to inform you of the fact that these matters include Peppa Pig!

StewieGriffinsMom · 01/05/2011 19:58

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gkys · 01/05/2011 19:53

ok have obviously caused offence, i don't tend to think too much about content above age suitability, nor do i see the inferred sexism in the themes explored, if i was dismissive then i appologise, it was unintensional, maybe i should think a little more about what they watch.

as for feminism, would rather equality for all

LawrieMarlow · 01/05/2011 19:28

Mummy Pig is a mumsnetter I am sure.

FrozenNorthPole · 01/05/2011 19:23

"You have every right to over-think, and with a million+ kids programmes these days, you can also be choosy"

That was my initial perspective, I think. I should have said in the original post that we watch barely any TV but I like to record a couple of series so DD1 can have one or two episodes at weekends. I find recording episodes easier than just popping the TV on as i) no adverts ii) once it's over, it's over ... it doesn't lead into heated toddler debates about "but I want to watch THIS now!", and iii) I don't have to watch the really annoying stuff. Hence my comfort with 'censoring' her viewing (thanks Funnys Grin) and hence my freedom to decide exactly what she watches. Of course, if she's not interested in something or requests something else, I tend to honour that. It's not like I'm dragging her screaming away from the set, but rather that I'm actually of the opinion that, at age 2, it really is up to me what she watches. As she gets older, it'll be more collaborative but for now I don't feel like I'm oppressing her or anything.

Having had a night to stop feeling so mortified and embarrassed about the thread getting so many replies (I was hoping for one, maybe two) I also started feeling a bit of a coward for apologising for overthinking. It seemed to me a very submissive thing to have done. Overthinking is what I do for a living. It drives some people around me mad but that's just who I am. I really believe that early TV exposure can be and generally is a formative experience - Marika Tiggemann and Hayley Dohnt's findings on this (e.g. 2006) have really influenced me. There's both a dose-response effect of media exposure and appearance aspirations, and an effect of type of tv watched. Importantly, the paper I mention above demonstrated temporal precedence.

I think my main mistake was underestimating Peppa Pig. In penance, I ordered a dvd today Smile

OP posts:
howdidthishappenthen · 01/05/2011 17:10

Peppa Pig is just fine - Daddy Pig often cooks and does laundry, and mummy Pig works. Big Cock Cook -Little Cock Cook is fine from a gender perspective (although fecking annoying in all other respects), all of Justin's programs are good. Big Barn farm is fine. Thomas The Tank Engine, however, is the stuff of the devil.

NotJustKangaskhan · 01/05/2011 15:38

You have every right to over-think, and with a million+ kids programmes these days, you can also be choosy.

For toddlers in my house, Pocoyo is a very popular choice. He's more androgenous in the earlier episodes I think, and there is a good balance of male and female characters (though only a male narrator, but it's Stephen Fry) and male, female, and both focused episodes. Much fun and mayhem with large pink elephant and yellow hat wearing duck.

One that my toddler reeally likes (as in, will swivel to the TV at the opening song) is 'The Cat in the Hat knows a lot about that'. Warning that the songs can really get stuck in their (and your) head. Boy and Girl main characters that are pretty much equal in adventure stakes, and the characters they go to for advice/information is equal between male and female, pretty much. I also quite like before they go on adventures, the Cat always has them go ask their mums.

Hana's Helpline and Little Bill also work well I think, though probably for older kids.

Also need recording/fast forwarding functions to get past horrid adverts, that comes very much in handy and sanity.

SybilBeddows · 01/05/2011 15:20

I like Postman Pat on its own though it is a bit stereotypical, but it's so sweet I forgive it.
What DOES bother me, though, is when a few hours of scheduling goes something like
Postman Pat
Timmy Time
Bob the Builder
Something Special
Big Cook Little Cook
and its just boy after boy after boy after boy. Then after a couple of hours you get Come Outside and breathe a big sigh of relief.
Milkshake has far more girl main characters but then you get the blasted Lelli Kelly adverts.

edam · 01/05/2011 15:04

I'm as feminist as they come but can't say I've ever been worried by Postman Pat. There's a female GP.

TimeWasting · 01/05/2011 14:55

That sounds really interesting. I shall google.

StewieGriffinsMom · 01/05/2011 14:49

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TimeWasting · 01/05/2011 14:44

When I was little we had a globe with all the countries marked on it. Grin
I liked it and it was educational. I am female too. Grin

StewieGriffinsMom · 01/05/2011 14:38

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TimeWasting · 01/05/2011 14:34

Unicorns? Confused