I'm disassociating from 'radical'

Sparky, agree about the state's power over children. You also only have to look at the Muchausen's Syndrome by Proxy scandal to see it in action - where (discredited) Roy Meadow went around accusing mothers of having the syndrome and then their children were taken away from them.

To answer your earlier question, I didn't find radical feminism scary, but I'd been looking for it for a hell of a long time. When I heard its arguments at a distance when I was younger though, I completely rejected them and refused to think about them. Sometimes you just need to hear them when the time is right.

I agree with SGM. The honesty and raw emotion is definitely one of the best things. And also one of the hardest things.

I see my comments have been picked up above and I'm trying to work out why it matters so much more to get a kicking on this board than on the others. I've had two instances of people going after me in all the years I've been here. Once was on AIBU and once was off the boards when someone emailed me something horrible and neither time has bothered me half as much as when it happened here.

I think it's three reasons: firstly and perhaps most importantly, I didn't respect the opinion of the numpty on AIBU who had a go and the other person was having a really hard time in their personal life and they channelled it at me; secondly, it was just one person and no-one else piled in too - quite the opposite actually; thirdly, I expect, perhaps unfairly, people here would not let their emotions get in the way of the debate and to be polite and well mannered all the time. I think I expect this because I know you're all bright people and you have something to say and you don't need to get personal to make a point and I feel disappointed and frustrated when it becomes a battle and I feel I can't articulate my point because the decision about who I am and what I have to say has been made already.

It takes patience and understanding to open someone's mind but you can't do that if you frighten them away. The more people who stand up as feminists and challenge the patriarchy the more likely we are to succeed.

hmmm-i think we are limited and controlled all the time.
take for instance having a child-i feel that our children are our children but only to a certain extent-the "state"owns them!
eg-try having a disagreement with a school over youre child-you know youre own child but sometimes apparently others know youre child better than you-this can lead to big problems if you disagree.
i feel that this is possibly more of a problem for workingclass women.
also its a problem with women with children with sn!

Sprogger - me too. It's just the way internet discussion boards work, isn't it?!

I think MN can be cliquey - and the sorority thing could apply in lots of threads. Generally it is not a place for the feint hearted
.

Thanks Dittany

PS - Lenin - I started the football season and just haven't kept up. Are you winning the MN league, or is it me ;-)

Katiemiddleton - "I have been told on this board that my views are "stupid" and I don't know what I'm talking about when referring to direct experience I have had. I have also had my posts taken apart and comments made and attributed to me about things I haven't said which then moves the debate away from the point and starts to border on the personal."

Yup, I have had that experience here too.

Oops, the Redstockings were from New York.

"Did the radical feminists call themselves "radical""

Yes, they applied the term radical (as in going to the root) to themselves. People like the Chicago Redstockings took the name.

I think that I am very lucky (not sure if that is the right word though) that I have never felt limited or controlled. Not a general sense anyway. I was positively encouraged to get an education. I did the rest myself. Up til recently I thought I was doing well.

I have a good career, a reasonably equal relationship, strong enough to not take shit from anyone. These threads have opened my eyes to where things are still lacking - the inherent, unconscious stuff. And like I said, I have a daughter. I have been very conscious of the model I set for her. I don't DO theory so well, I prefer practical. I am happy to take a ruck on here. I am learning things all the time.

A genuine question here: how did the term "radical feminism" come to be adopted?

I've been looking online but can seem to find a consensus. Did the radical feminists call themselves "radical" or were they labelled as such by others? Is the meaning linked to the idea of "roots", as suggested earlier in the thread, or was it adopted with the more commonplace meaning (extreme) in mind?

[an aside, as one of my female students observed the other day, a man holding the same views about men as radical feminists hold about women wouldn't be radical. He'd just be a man.]

hello Beachcomberwavesthankyou!
no i havent been around much-ive had a lot to sort out but im back now!

Dittany-yep-i agree.
mind you-i did have to do a lot of thinking before i come to the conclusion that it was right[i feel]-[radical feminism]as i kept thinking that i was fooling myself-but then i realised that i was just a bit scared-its quite scary when you finally take charge of youreself and youre own thoughts isnt it!
did you feel like this?

Lenin, it is a good point that it wasn't a framed discussion. But OP considers herself to be an active feminist. Yet she still has these views. So I suppose I am wondering why that is, rather than just calling her rude. It isn't very constructive I suppose?

Can I ask the question - why IS feminism so scary to some women?

Most, I am sure want to have equal opportunity and not be treated as second class citizens. I can understand why a certain type of man might feel threatened. I can also imagine that some women still see it as the preserve of the lesbian, dungaree wearing, bra burning cliche thing and not something for them.

I think that MN is such a good opportunity to educate other women and when we end up with loads of "scary" threads where peoples thoughts are immediately dismissed that it alienates the very audience that we should be seeking to bring on board.

That's great Sparky. I don't post to make people think in particular (I post what I think is true and is important to say) but I have thought a lot about all this, so if it made you think too, I'm really happy.

Also the thing about radical feminism helping you realise things that you hadn't put into words before - it was the same for me when I came across it. Real lightbulb moments as if everything that hadn't made sense now made sense. You don't need to have read a lot to understand it either. Radical feminism explains what happens in our own lives, because it's based on what happens in women's lives. There isn't a lot of theory that does that.

Hello sparky - haven't seen you around for a while. I miss your posts, they are always very perceptive.

when i first come here i thought everyone was weird and harsh-this is because i didnt understand!
also i dont understand long words-however-hate is a short word isnt it and i can understand this word.
when i first come here i was arguing with everyone but stayed anyway and i have had a lot of "lightbulb"moments since then.
radical feminism has helped me realise why i have spent my life arguing with people but not understanding who/why i was arguing-
ive argued because ive always had gut feelings about things but never the words or education.
i came to realise that it wasnt the man or woman that was pissing me off that was the real problem-someone pulls their strings and that someone is patriacy[cant spell it]
i also thought that this was a place for middle class women and educated but i realised that this doesnt matter beccause we are equal-
its just that someone decided to call me "underclass"-and for a while i believed it..[you never guess who this was]
you dont need long words to say"stop fuckin trying to mug me off"
[this is to the patriacy by the way]
i havent got round to reading books yet but i am following a few blogs and listening to what others have to say and im finding it really interesting.
ill end this by saying-thankyou Dittany-if i hadnt of argued with you i wouldnt of had the "lighbulb"moments.you made me think!