"guys" - an acceptable form of address for women?

Incidentally, I live in Spain and when we've had mixed Anglos and Spaniards doing things together, the Spaniards get very at being called "guys" - it sounds exactly the same as their pronunciation of "gays".
They don't tend to feel insulted though (not the ones I met, though) - they just thought it was funny once it was explained.

As you were...

There was a consultant character on jo brand's comedy 'getting on' who kept addressing a mixed group of medical students as 'gents'. It was obv supposed to be annoying and it was very cringey in a Davd Brentesque way

It does have different meanings. It used to mean happy, carefree and blythe.

More recently it began to mean homosexual. That meaning came into being through the sue of the word among the homosexual community, as far as I know, though that could be wrong - but anyway, that's not the point, it was used to mean homosexual so homosexual became its meaning.

You can transpose this onto the word ;guys; without going into the morality of using the word 'gay' to mean 'uncool' at all (though I used that example myself - it's not necessary).

eighty years ago you could have told someone that gay meant homosexual and they'd have laughed at you and said 'how horrid, it means happy'.

Then people started using it to mean homosexual and NOW, we take that as its meaning. Do you get my point?

The same thing could happen with the use of the word 'guys'. It could go from meaning 'men' to meaning 'people'. It just has to be used more frequently in that context and eventually it will become normal.

It has already to an extent or we wouldn't be having this discussion.

Spot on SGM.

I remember the word "th'lid" being a popular insult when I started at secondary school. I didn't even know that it came from "Thalidomide" and was derived from the Thalidomide scandal, which left so many people with horrendous disabilities.

A teacher overheard a boy in my class using the term and she launched into a furious lecture about how thoughtless and inappropriate it was to use the word. She told us about the Thalidomide scandal and described a child she know who had been affected.
It silenced us all and I don't think any of us used the word again.

Yes, before I knew the word's genesis, I would have used it without thinking twice. Would that have made it alright?
Nope.

I'll ignore the peanut brain thing, assuming it was aimed at me. I think you will understand what I was trying to say if you go back and read my penultimate post from last night.

'I agree too. I find it totally bizarre when people claim the word gay to mean uncool is harmless. I just can't understand that at all.'

No no no NO that's completely not what I was saying. I don't think it's OKAY to use it in that sense, but you've missed the point as has Seeker.

My point was that words have meanings according to how they are used and understood. Gay was just an example of a word with different meanings when used by different people.

If anyone thinks I meant it was 'fine' to use the word gay to mean 'uncool' they are very much mistaken.

Re. trousers - think women were starting to wear them before WW2 but they were still unusual enough to cause comment. Vague memories of James Herriot saying his then girlfriend taken up 'the new fashion for slacks' in the late '30s. (He approved, IIRC, but there were plenty of Yorkshire country folk who muttered about it.)

I have wondered how a group of men would react they where told that now the affection "insert female type word" is a term to address all men and woman together as a gender neutral term.

How would they react, would they accept it or would they be more inclined to say something to stop the term being used to address them?

I am not keen on being addressed using a male term, if I make a fuss though I am being silly. If I don't say anything then no one knows that some of us object to the use of a male word being used to address us. I live in a household with only females and going out to a cafe/pub with only females and being addressed as "Hi guys" I find odd in itself - just say "hello" or "hi" no actual need for the guys to be added. They would think me odd if my reply was "Hi guys" or "Hi Guy" wouldn't they?

didn't think so

Sorry - the peanut brain reference wasn't aimed at you!

Ok, seeker, I got it after SGM's post, it is just I never use it as "uncool". I would not even remember there is this meaning unless reminded. My four teenage/young adult stepkids never use it in this sense either.

bemybebe - I'm sorry - I didn't make myself clear. It's not, of course, homophobic to use "gay' to mean homosexual. However, it is always, and without exception, homophobic to use it to mean "uncool", or "feeble" or "pathetic". However much people tell you otherwise.

And anyone with a brain larger than a peanut can see why.

Tell you what I hate and I might start a thread about I think. "Fannying about" for messing around or procrastinating. Ugh.

yes SGM - i remember a couple of years ago telling myself off for calling dp an 'old woman' when he was fussing about something. it was a throwaway comment, but very telling about how we view older people, particularly older women

I agree about the importance of language. Language also shapes our thoughts, so if we are incorporating sexist language into our lexis - however benign the intention - it can have an attritional effect on the way we view our world and the people in it.

But I do happen to believe that.

Why 'gay' is wrong? My gay friend describes himself as a gay. How would you describe him seeker?

I don;t think the use of the word "gay" is 'fluid". I think it is always unacceptable and homophobic - even if that is not the intention.

Like you could hear a teenage boy using the word 'gay' to describe something he doesn't rate as very cool. You could say 'gay doesn't mean that' and the kid would know exactly what it meant, as would the other teenage boy he was talking to. So in that context it means 'not very cool'. And between other people, in other contexts, it would mean homosexual, or happy, or something completely different probably.

This stuff is so fluid.

'I use 'guys' in casual conversation in a similar way that you do, but just because I use it in a gender neutral way doesn't mean it is a gender neutral term - it is an informal term for a boy or man. So when I address a mixed group I am in effect either pretending the women are men, or ignoring them. And neither are good.'

No, I disagree...the fact you, and I and countless other people use it in a neutral context means that it is a gender neutral term for the moment in which we use it and for all those who understand it as one.

it is, it is also a non neutral term for those who still comprehend it as male-relevant. It's both, by definition, as the way a word is used can denote and define its meaning (I think) and the more people use it neutrally the more it will mean a neutral thing. Viral etymology, maybe!

What about these (and I do use them in my day-to-day):
Family
Friends
Colleagues

They are completely gender-neutral, wouldn't you say?

SGM but don't you think that using the word 'problem' devalues this word?