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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Superinjunctions

46 replies

NormanTebbit · 22/04/2011 23:45

Why have judges suddenly decided that a man's right to be an adulterer takes precedence over her right to free expression? Why shouldn't she ho yo yhe papers? Why shouldn't she get paid fir her story?

he decided to pay for sex/ have an affair, he should have thought of the consequences fir his wife and family before he did it.

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HerBEggs · 26/04/2011 21:58

That Andrew Marr thing just shows that it doesn't matter how reasonable and liberal someone is, if you give them privilege at some stage they will abuse it.

NormanTebbit · 26/04/2011 12:20

It's all rather poacher turned gamekeeper in the case of Andrew Marr, isn't it.

Iwas a journalist and have been to magistrates court to argue against a order that had been made not allowing us to identify a defendant. This is bread and butter stuff to journalists.

But yes there should be guidelines surrounding these injunctions - they shouldn't be used yo protect someone from embarrassment.

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SardineQueen · 26/04/2011 08:17

Andrew Marr today amazingly hypocritical!!!

It's a classic case of a type of person (with huge entitlement) who thinks that certain things shouldn't be allowed, but of course those rules wouldn't apply to them Hmm For other examples of mindset, see wealthy white men everywhere...

SardineQueen · 25/04/2011 16:22

Good post HerB I agree.

HerBEggs · 24/04/2011 21:21

I think there probably does need to be a proper privacy law, it's not just slebs who get doorstepped by journalist, if you are the subject of some appalling tragedy, your privacy can be horribly invaded and you don't have the cushion of wealth which slebs have to protect you from invastion of privacy.

Judges making it up as they go along, allowing powerless women to be named but not powerful men, is a scandal. I do think there needs to be some protection for normal people who happen to get caught up in something but don't see why slebs who build up a very careful image and make lots and lots of money from that image, should be allowed to perpetrate a fraud on the public. How is it in the public interest that we should all look at Wayne Rooney or John Terry and think they're really nice family men and role models we'd like our children to admire? Why do we need to be protected from the knowledge that tehy're really quite nasty men?

bemybebe · 24/04/2011 16:38

Norman, but I doubt any journalists will be going to any courts as it is a bit more expensive than a trip to McDonalds. It is just wrong to expect a private body (eg a newspaper), especially with commercial interests, to defend public interest in the court of law at a fee. Absurd, in fact.

I do not believe there is any need for any privacy laws over and above what is already in the law. Super injunctions should not be allowed.

SardineQueen · 24/04/2011 16:23

I know I was a bit mind-boggled when I read that.

MoreBeta · 24/04/2011 16:20

It seems quite wrong to allow one party to be named but not the other just because they can afford the legal fees to get a super injunction.

NormanTebbit · 24/04/2011 16:17

The problem with a privacy law is that there are times when the revelation of an affair, alcoholism or drug taking is in the public interest. Now I couldn't care less if Kate Moss takes Coke because she's a model and it's practically in the job description. If a judge or top cop is taking it- it's in the puic interest to know.

So I suppose you could make journalists go to court to persuade a judge to lift the law in the interests of the public - but who's to say be'/she will grant that?

And why should celebs such as Paris Hilton be given special treatment?

And yes, why were the women named but not the men?

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MoreBeta · 24/04/2011 15:57

By 'proper' I mean a law that is not being made up by judges as they go along as is now the case.

bemybebe · 24/04/2011 15:45

MoreBeta what do you mean by "proper' privacy law? What constitutes proper or improper?

Should a person in the public eye have an opportunity to build a fictional image of him/herself and trade this image as real without being challenged by others? Motivations of others are irrelevant.

I don't give a toss about Tiger Woods' private life, but the consequences he suffered as a result of dislocation of his private/public persona are right. Do you disagree?

SardineQueen · 24/04/2011 15:44

From the article

"Other subjects of injunctions include Imogen Thomas, a model, whose identity was revealed when the details of the injunction were varied to permit her being named but not the married footballer she had had an affair with."

Now if that's how it happened, then that bleeding appalling.

SardineQueen · 24/04/2011 15:42

In the Independent today, a pissed off shagee gives her POV

her thoughts here

article here

MoreBeta · 24/04/2011 15:34

We need a proper privacy law in this country. End of story.

Super injunctions are a symptom of the cheque book journalism approach that newspapers have taken in the last 20 years.

It is not in the public interest that a consensual affair is exposed to public ridicule and titilation by either the man or the woman in the relationship.

All parties need protection so they can have a private life.

The problem will come when a super injunction is used to suppress a story that really is in the public interest.

bemybebe · 24/04/2011 15:07

"against the principle of super injunctions"

bemybebe · 24/04/2011 15:05

HerBEggs I agree with you and I am totally against this super injunctions. And Norman I guess I am an exception, I do not read 'kiss and tell'.

StewieGriffinsMom · 24/04/2011 15:02

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HerBEggs · 24/04/2011 15:01

Well precisely.

We have no idea what it's about do we.

That's what's wrong with them.

bemybebe · 24/04/2011 13:57

Wasn't Naomi Campbell the first person to get something close to superinjunction? I was not following her story from about 4-5 years ago. I may be getting this completely wrong of course. Incidentally, I do not see her career flourishing, which brands is she fronting? Maybe only 'blood diamonds inc'...

There are 20 odd people who have their identities protected by these at the moment. Who knows what gender and what they have done? Are we sure it is only about adultery?

NormanTebbit · 24/04/2011 13:47

Well yes they could. They might have done it. We don't knowbecause we are not allowed to know.

So at the moment it appears Gendered - the shagger protected, the prostitute silenced, because his right to promote his commercial interests without scrutiny are more important than her freedom of speech and the freedom of the press.

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HerBEggs · 24/04/2011 13:43

Well the same principles apply don't they. I very much doubt that Kate Moss has ever taken a super injuction out, otherwise we wouldn't all know quite so much about her coke use. Her brand appears to be pretty undamaged by her behaviour. Naomi Campbell's brand is actually bound up with her image as selfish bitch who won't get out of bed for less than the average family wage or whatever it was and finds it a frightful bore being called to a war crimes tribunal... I actually think her brand might be damaged if we found out she was secretly running an orphanage in the developing world and regularly visiting to read the children stories...

The principle is the same isn't it. The law should not protect brand values based on dishonesty.

bemybebe · 24/04/2011 13:37

To those who bring it out as a feminist issue, what are your views about potential for Naomi Campbell, Kate Moss, Cheryl Cole et al taking out superinjunctions to protect their public persona when they behave badly.

HerBEggs · 24/04/2011 13:24

"I think it is about whether or not the sex life of a public figure affects their ability to do their job, an actor? No. Politician? Yes."

No I don't think it is just about that. As others have said, the actor/ pop singer/ footballer etc., is not just doing their job, they are also getting other jobs - lucrative advertising deals, marketing campaigns, merchandisng etc., off the back of their public image.

Their public image is part of their money making. There is something pretty revolting about a man like Wayne Rooney who is married with a child, using prostitutes. So he is not the best man to front a coca cola campaign because whenever I look at him, I think what a skank he is (not consciously, but sub-consciously). That also affects my perception of the brand he is selling. Brand Rooney depends on certain core values being synergystic with Brand Coca Cola, Brand Nike, Brand Walkers Crisps etc. (I know he doesn't advertaise those, but I think another shagger does? - can't remember which one). If the brands of the foootballers/ actors, etc. are tarnished too much, the brands who look for celebrity endorsement to sell more of their product, will not want to work with them, because they will be bringing their product into the saem company as the sort of skankiness associated with the England football team, for example. And that skankiness rubs off on their brand. It's the reason premium brands won't advertise in certain low grade publications or TV programmes - it's not jsut that they want to target their audience efficiently, it's also that "the company you keep" as a brand, re-inforces your brand image and you undermine it by putting it in the wrong place or associating it with the wrong person.

And whoever said it's not a judge's job to protect the brand image of a person or corporation, is right. It is a disgraceful misuse of the law IMO.

NormanTebbit · 24/04/2011 12:38

In cases of sexual abuse it is covered by law. Anything that may ID the child is Not Allowed. So injunctions are not needed although in other cases court orders are made to protect minors.

But again, it's about her rights to free expression. So she sells her story - like prostitution, the only reason she can sell is because we want to buy - is she to blame? Yes to some extent but our culture is culpable too. We all love a kiss and tell.

To me it just seems so hypocritical. That a celeb fucking a prostitute means he can be protected in law but she should shut up about it, even when he is parading his kids in OK magazine and selling products on the back of this image.

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Bumperlicioso · 24/04/2011 12:08

I don't know. I understand the argument that because more men than women seek SIs it may be a gender issue. I suppose it's hard to tell if the injunction is as a result of the press trying to leak a story they have investigated or from the other person actively trying to sell their story, which I think is pretty odious.

I don't often have sympathy for celebrities in these cases, especially those who's very being and income seem dependent on being in the press. But for someone like an actor or footballer who is only famous for being very good at something they enjoy doing doing, well, I don't think it is fair to have their private life splashed about in the media, male or female.

Plus if a woman is shagging a celebrity famous enough that there is no doubt he has a partner should she not have some moral culpability too.

The protecting children thing is a load of bollocks though. I think it is about whether or not the sex life of a public figure affects their ability to do their job, an actor? No. Politician? Yes.