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Original poster

Girls' shoes - sort of "stop pimping our kids" but wider issue than sexualisation...

59 replies

Lemonsole · 21/04/2011 21:23

Around this time last year I started a thread in Politics about the polarisation of children's shoes. Thread

Interestingly enough, I almost apologised for starting it - in those days before the Feminism board I struggled to convince many MNers that it was a political issue.

Today I went into Russell and Bromley inthe quest for DD's school shoes, and there on the shelf were these horrors

It's not only the ShoeZone/ Brantano end of the market producing inappropriate footwear - but now the "higher end" is getting in on the act, too. Incidentally, after my explosion, the assistant tried to suggest that they weren't "real" shoes, but dressing-up shoes. Yes, at fifty quid a pair..

I'm drafting my email to R and B as I type... any thoughts on what on earth we can do about it all?

I'm not daft - I know that Lelli Kellis have ALWAYS been vile, and always will be. The presence of vast quantities of glitter and jewels makes it very clear to young girls that any temptation to fun or activity suggested by the fact that their shoes are pumps should be quickly damped down and limited to watching and looking pretty. But they are now getting into a whole new league with these heels.

Boycott R and B? Where in the bloody hell will I be able to buy Start-rites? In our city it is Clarks (shite) or R and B or nowt. And I'm not ready to just order shoes by trial and error over the internet.

Interestingly enough, after their initial attempts to play down the shoes, the assistants seemed to share my views, particularly on the grounds that a children's shoe department marketing itself as a responsible choice should not be stocking such items.

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 22/04/2011 10:19

"key issues (safety, practicality) just aren't up for negotiation. But I am quite old-fashioned like that..."

I don't think that's old-fashioned, I think that's just sensible. I'm quite soft/liberal and I don't think being the adult automatically means I'm right about everything, but issues like safety and practicality don't always occur to children, so you have to step in and give them the benefit of your age and experience in these cases. Like how a toddler won't necessarily know that walking in the road is dangerous.

garlicbutter · 22/04/2011 10:04

Blimey, they've stopped doing unisex shoes? How idiotic! We all used to have Tuf shoes - sold by size, not gender - and some other ones that had animal footprints on the soles :) Iirc, there were some with a little compass in the sole, too - Wayfinders?

Then, of course, there were my unsuitable blue patent shoes ...

upsydaisysexstylist · 22/04/2011 09:44

Hmm, now have the manic street preachers if you tolerate this then your children will be next as an earworm after reading this thread. I would love unisex shoes, might be more chance of shops stocking one's to fit ds1's narrow fit, nearly fell over in clarks when they said they did not stock d width for boys. Luckily local indiependant shop stocks geox and many european ranges so far last two winters he has had girls brown lace up boots, do not think this has harmed his sense of self! Though to be fair to the pink sparkly crowd they are the shoes he is always drawn to in the shop, They nearly always are completely unsuitable for children of either sex, no arch support , nothing to protect toe when climbing

SueSylvesterforPM · 22/04/2011 08:32

I my biggest issue is that they sell make- up with them well on type of shoe I've seen on tv

lockets · 22/04/2011 08:15

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

neepsntatties · 22/04/2011 08:02

Those are horrible. My dd is too small for shoes yet but I hate shopping for ds. I hate all the dull brown and blues. I want some nice bright colours for him.

snowmama · 22/04/2011 06:52

YANBU, good email, those shoes are inappropriate, bad for foot development....and sexualise little girls, as well as reinforcing a very singular view of feminity...they make me very ranty.

ravenAK · 22/04/2011 01:54

I've just bought dd1 (aged 5) some rather frivolous multicoloured gladiator sandals & dd2 (aged 3) some canvas shoes with a buckle.

Both feature more pink than I'd choose, but both are suitable for running in - & dd1 changed back in to her scruffy plimsolls earlier because she was tree climbing ('I'll save my new sandals for going to the seaside at the weekend').

There is absolutely no reason I can see for any child of primary age or below to need any sort of heeled shoe. YANBU.

Original poster
Lemonsole · 21/04/2011 23:17

garlicbutter - on shoes, at the moment I don't have to compromise hugely, because she likes shoes that mean that she can run around easily. She's also getting to understand that I was to spend 50 quid on something bonkers, there would be less money for something else. On other areas we do talk about what is nice and what isn't. Luckily she so far has similar tastes to me. On areas like shoes, though, I am the Grown-Up and she is the Child, and as such, key issues (safety, practicality) just aren't up for negotiation. But I am quite old-fashioned like that...

OP posts:
garlicbutter · 21/04/2011 22:59

Can I first say that:
a] Armchair activism is A Good Thing and you're definitely not alone!
b] I'm in favour of "stop pimping our kids".
c] I'm also in favour of pink reduction.
d] I haven't got DCs.

Now may I say:
e] At 8yo, I forced my mother to buy me some unsuitable, heeled, patent leather shoes by walking to school in my socks for a week Blush
f] The (very pink) little girls round here are wearing rainbow-striped pumps atm, which strike me as both girly and age-appropriate. They have a sparkly buckle.

I'm not at all sure how one should deal with a strong-willed fashion victim like my young self, but presumably Mum could have tried harder to find & sell me a compromise. The rainbow shoes look like such a compromise to me; surely it's unnecessary to stamp out all girlish tendencies in little girls?

I'm not trying to criticise anybody, by the way. I'm interested in how modern mothers deal with the pink-wash and barmy knickers.

The aspect of Brazilian life that most discomfited me was the sexualisation of young children: I did see several positive aspects to it (extreme self-confidence, for eg), but the sexy part of it all creeped me out. I felt happy we don't do that - but we're getting pretty damn close now!

Original poster
Lemonsole · 21/04/2011 22:56

BertieBotts - your pastiche advert: so true!

These heels are definitely not just another shoe choice - I know exactly what you mean about the marketing of their plimsole/trainer-shaped shoes; the girlie angle is even more vile than the shoes themselves. I really felt though that these heels took them into a whole new league.

OP posts:
Original poster
Lemonsole · 21/04/2011 22:51

yousankmybattleship - why does anything that goes on in the world affect us? I see this as yet another manifestation of how young girls are pigeon-holed into behaving in a nice, demure way from the earliest years. If nobody had got het-up over foot-binding in China it would still be going on...

In this case, the specific impact on me is that looking at an entire wall of glittery crap limits the choice of other shoes. No sensible canvas plimmies without a designer label, only two school sandals, and no sporty sandals if you're a size 9 -11.

OP posts:
BertieBotts · 21/04/2011 22:47

Just looked at the link though - agree the heels are awful. Developing feet should have properly supportive shoes if possible. Shoes which force the feet into unnatural positions must be detrimental to this.

Original poster
Lemonsole · 21/04/2011 22:47

Barry - I think that I am going to have to go in a talk to the owner of the inde next time. I bought her sandals today in R and B, as she needs them for school on Tuesday, but I would like not to have to go back, (and to return my store card, explaining why!)

Geeklove - I have one of each, and so experience the other side of the polarisation, too - the impossibility of a boy's shoe that isn't a trainer. Equally limiting and pigeon-holing, but not in quite such a damaging way as it is for the girls and their frills. Found DS some fab Hush Puppies at our independent shop.

OP posts:
yousankmybattleship · 21/04/2011 22:46

Good lord, you've got some time on your hands to be composing such a pompous email over such a trivial issue. These shoes are undoubtably tacky and over-priced but I really struggle to see why you've got your knickers in such a twist. If parents are stupid enough to buy them, then of course the shop will stock them, I don't see why that affects you.

BertieBotts · 21/04/2011 22:44

Have you seen the advert too? It's like the kind of thing me and my sister used to make up for pretend adverts on our pretend radio when we were about 9 and 12. Complete with exaggerated, saccharine American accent which for some reason we always used to put on in our games.

I do actually think the shoes are quite cute, but can't they just be presented as another choice of shoes - they don't have to be marketed SO MUCH at girls with this ridiculous slant. It's likely that mainly girls will choose them anyway, without that. You can imagine the conversation they had in the advertising office.

"We need a free gift to come with the Lelli Kelly shoes. It's all the rage. Kids go mad for them."
"Okay. So these shoes are obviously JUST for girls. Let's think about all the things girls like."
"Cute things. Baby animals, they love that. How about a cuddly toy?"
"Nah, too expensive, too big. We need something small. Something plasticky like the other shoe gimmicks."

"They like... make up!"
"And talking!"

"How about a mobile phone with make up in!"
"Oh oh! And we could put pictures of puppies and kittens in the phone."
"Perfect, guys. What little girl in her right mind isn't going to adore that? A make up phone, with pictures of puppies and kittens in it. They won't be able to resist."

"Hey, how about adding a princess charm to the phone?"
"Don't be stupid. That would be overkill."

Original poster
Lemonsole · 21/04/2011 22:41

For decades? In the 70s we used to wear our ballet shoes with party dresses, or our school shoes. I remember wearing ballet shoes as a bridesmaid in the early 80s, too - so I think that party shoes for children are a more recent phenomenon. We used to dress up in our mums' old shoes, so we couldn't wear them for more than a couple of minutes at a time as they were waaaay too big.

Dressing-up shoes? at 50 quid a pop? Really?

R and B claim themselves, through their branding and pricing to be "high end" and "responsible", as far as children's shoes are concerned. Shoe Zone don't make any claims either way, and so aren't being hypocritical.

It shows how far inappropriate shoes have already encroached towards becoming the norm that you need to see a stiletto to be shocked. A three year-old could be bought these. Does that not bother you at all?

OP posts:
GeekLove · 21/04/2011 22:35

Since I was (and still am) a tomboy I used to go through so many pairs of girls shoes I used to wear boys from aged 9 onwards. I just don't get why they cannot be more unisex after all boys and girls ARE still children.
As for shoes like those LelliKellis the fact that they are on sale means that people will buy them and the end result is that people will see them.

I just feel a little bad that I cannot put those principles into practises myself since I have two boys but I hope that girls I do know will not feel that they have to wear impractical expensive footwear.

bigbadbarry · 21/04/2011 22:35

I wonder if they'd order them in if you asked? Mine will - when DD wears out her school shoes at non-approved school-shoe-buying times of year (plus she has freakishly narrow feet so they don't always have anything in to fit her.)

TeiTetua · 21/04/2011 22:34

I like the way they come in "glittering silver, fuxia or white". There's a bright fuxia ahead for any girl who wears these.

duckypoo · 21/04/2011 22:34

I was expecting to see stilettos tbh, I don't see the problem really, girls have had party/dress up shoes for decades, they are hardly school shoes. I don't really get the "high end" "responsible" choice angle either, are shoezone irresponsible? do they hand out crack pipes and razor blades with each pair of cheap crocs?

Overracting a bit I think, the heel is tiny, yes they are sparkly, I have seen worse.

Original poster
Lemonsole · 21/04/2011 22:33

No, we haven't. There is one that stocks a few styles, but they didn't have the two summer sandals (i.e. not open-toed) that we wanted. I don't drive, so I find it harder to get further afield. If there was one, I'd use it, and probably have lower blood pressure.

OP posts:
bigbadbarry · 21/04/2011 22:31

To allow you to boycott R&B I mean

bigbadbarry · 21/04/2011 22:30

Good email.
We have a nice independent children's shoe shop which stocks startrite (amongst other ludicrously expensive brands). No silly girly shoes to be seen. Nothing similar near you?

Original poster
Lemonsole · 21/04/2011 22:26

Norman - DD was a tad mortified by my outburst this afternoon. She doesn't like LKs - but that may be because of the tide of vitriol that bursts forth when her mother comes into close proximity of a pair. Blush Quite happy with her school StarRite Gumdrops and last year's Geox sandals. So far.

OP posts: