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Original poster

Disney Princesses - Can someone help me get my argument straight please?

85 replies

dirgeinvegas · 20/04/2011 10:30

I read a fantastic blog last year about how Disney princesses portrayed women very negatively- Disney princesses are very sexual, spend their lives waiting to be rescued by a man, beauty valued over anything else etc.

It made me evaluate how I want to bring up DD and the kinds of toys and clothes we buy for DD (2.3) and whilst I don't go as far as to reject princessy/"girly" gifts from family, if they ask I encourage them to buy her something else.

So, yesterday, my mother asked me if I planned to stop co-sleeping with DD. I said we'd considered it but she doesn't have her own bed at the moment so we'll probably do something over the summer before DC2 arrives. She said she'd seen a beautiful princess bed and she wanted to buy it for DD.

I said I'd prefer her not to have a princess bed and tried to explain my reasons but it sounded a bit weak to be honest. It made much more sense when I read the article. My mum just sighed said "yes, but she's a girly girl and she if she'd like the bed then surely that means its her choice". I struggled to argue with that one (except the "girly girl" bit). I pointed out that she also likes Thomas the Tank Engine and so might like a bed like that but she said that's a boys bed and asked why I can't just let DD be a girl. I said I am letting her be a girl just not by my mothers definition of what it is to be a girl.

So basically all my waffle is asking for some help in explaining to my mum why I don't want DD to have a princess bed. Interestingly, it's princess bed or buy a bed ourselves and my step-dad may just buy it for her anyway which would infuriate me.

I want my parents to understand, even if they don't agree. Princess is just the latest battle. I'm still working on "good girls don't do X" or their obsession with trying to get my energetic, climbing, running 2 year old to wear pink dresses (have you tried climbing a slide in a dress?).

I also can't find the blog anymore but am still searching...

OP posts:
Bonsoir · 20/04/2011 11:36

You need to be very careful of not throwing the baby out with the bathwater for little girls - who are not boys, and generally do take a great deal of pleasure in dressing up in pretty clothes and costumes. This is not just harmless, but an active part of the creation of their identity.

Original poster
dirgeinvegas · 20/04/2011 11:35

manitz I think you're dead right, she won't respond to a feminist argument will she? I am wasting my time. I suppose the shortest route is to say that I'd like something that will last longer or match her bedroom furniture.

Interesting you should ask about her not wanting DD to grow up, I think its more about control. She thinks DD should sleep independently, go to nursery to become more independent but on the other hand wanted to spoon feed her (when she was tiny and DD was on finger foods), and wants DD to sit/play wherever she tells her to and with whatever she thinks is appropriate rather than with something of DD's choice. It's a strange contradiction but the bottom line is, my mum doesn't like DD's will and the fact that she expresses what she wants (she's a toddler fgs) she'd like her to be more passive. She's requested that DC2 due in October be less independent.

Rhian thanks for the link, will read that now. That "let girls be girls" is horrible.

Ephiny agree with your whole post.

OP posts:
silverfrog · 20/04/2011 11:30

oh, btw - completely agree that at 2 dresses not always practical. dd2 was in dungareesa nd trousers until she was a little over 3 (when her will started taking over Grin) - she does have the coordination now to sort out her running/climbing etc around a dress, so I let her get on with it.

silverfrog · 20/04/2011 11:28

I struggle with this one too. sometimes.

dd2 is the girliest girl imaginable, and in love with anythign princess-y.

she wears only dresses (althoguh red is her favourite colour, thankfully, but she ahs a sprinkling of pink too!) - will nt wear shorts, or trousers - no way, no how.

my take on it is that clothes are clothes - when (if) she finds that wearing a dress restricts her - and it hasn't so far, she runs about, climbs ladders, clambers over climbing frames etc (not exactly elegantly Grin but then she's wearing pants, so who cares?) - then I will have a chat with her either about how to manage it wearing a dress, or that hse might want to consider wearign shorts for that activity... she iwll have to tackle the shorts issue once at school anyway (she is 4).

OP - I agree that the issue is more that your parents are deliberately ignoring your wishes, and re-writing the rulebook (ie your dd will grow out of Peppa, but not out of princesses), and this needs addressing.

as for Princesses in general - I think they are well and truly in our life ofr a while - we were at Disneyworld last week, and both dds adored meeting the princesses (I do wish they could change their script and mention a few hobbies other than brushing thier hair Hmm - at least Ariel is always chatting about swimming Grin). dha nd I try our best to undermine the "waiting for a Prince" message by countering with lots of enjoyable sports and interests - if it stays at a love of glitter and party dresses, then fine (and yes, both dds are allowed ot do whatever they like in whatever they wear - clothes wash is the biggest mantra in our household!)

Original poster
dirgeinvegas · 20/04/2011 11:26

I am not overly bothered about the bed. DD would probably only bounce on it and then get in with us. Its the princess thing.

Bonsoir that's the thing, she can't run and climb dressed like a princess or even in a dress, the skirt gets tangled and limits her.

My nephew might also like wearing dresses or a princess bed but my mum wouldn't buy him either of those. That's my issue, the bed is picked out because DD is a girl, not because she likes it.

OP posts:
Ephiny · 20/04/2011 11:24

It just goes to show how much of this is conditioning - your mum insisting that your DD must love princesses, despite her probably not having a clue even what they are at her age! I agree as well about people emphasising (and rewarding) the gender-typical behaviours - most kids like a bit of both 'girly' and 'boyish' things if left to themselves, or more to the point they just like what they like at that age, and don't know or care about what they're 'supposed' to like. It's not about 'letting her be a girl', it's about letting her be herself, not forcing her to be what other people think a girl should be.

I think your best argument really is that you want a sensible, long-lasting bed that will outlast any princess phase your DD may or may not have. I agree about disliking the whole princess thing on principle, but doubt your parents will 'get' that :(. Or say there's no need for them to buy such an expensive gift, and you're happy to get a bed yourself.

Rhian82 · 20/04/2011 11:24

Gah, here's the link so it actually works: disneyprincessrecovery.blogspot.com/

alexpolismum · 20/04/2011 11:24

thanks for those cartoon princess links! They're so funny!

manitz · 20/04/2011 11:24

i disagree (about the peer pressure thing). my dd's are 8 and 6 and dressed as princesses (neither encouraged nor discouraged). They are resolutely anti girly now and i think they see it as something little girls do.

i hate branded goods and particularly solid items like beds. i don't think your mum (from what you've said) will respond to a feminist argument. Could't you just say you'd like something that will last a little longer and a bit less in your face which can adapt to her age. i think it's really important (for my back) that my kids can get in and out of cars - does'nt she want her to grow up?

Rhian82 · 20/04/2011 11:23

I read this blog which is very good: disneyprincessrecovery.blogspot.com/

There's a bit down the side about why the mum started to question the princesses - she was disturbed by how her daughter acted when playing at princess.

There also a depressing post where she talks about how people have criticised her for being unAmerican for daring to criticise Disney (here). The scariest comment she was given was:

Please let your girls be girls! There is nothing wrong with being a princess. First Daddy's princess, then hubby's princess. --JoAnn

I think that sums it all up quite well - the princess thing is all about belonging to a man, rather than being a person in your own right.

thumbbunny · 20/04/2011 11:19

When I open the link, the other 2 vids are shown below, in related videos as well :)

Bonsoir · 20/04/2011 11:18

Don't over think this. Disney animation is first and foremost a crime against beauty/aesthetics, and that's the main reason to avoid it.

Little girls like dressing up as princesses and there is absolutely nothing wrong with this providing they are allowed to do whatever they want to do (running, climbing, reading, sliding...) wearing a pretty dress.

aftereight · 20/04/2011 11:17

Could they buy her a white bed and pink princessy (rather than princess characters) bedding and a net canopy from ikea? So it's princessy but just in a girly pink, rather than Disney way? Seems like a good compromise.

thumbbunny · 20/04/2011 11:17

Xposted! Yes, that's the same one. :)
Well found Alice!

thumbbunny · 20/04/2011 11:16

Oh it probably is the same ones, AliceWorld - I think I picked up the links on here anyway. Damn, do you think someone complained about them? :(
She really did a good job of them.

Dirgein - girl-meets-handsome-prince-falls-in-love-lives-happily-ever-after fairytales are dreadful things to tell small girls! Your mum is being a right PITA trying to continue the conditioning - just because she had to put up with the conditioning, doesn't mean your DD has to!

I think you are absolutely right in what you are attempting to do, btw - although I also think that as your DD gets older, you're going to have a job sticking to it, regardless of her DGP. Peer pressure is still depressingly happy to categorise girls into princess mode.

Original poster
dirgeinvegas · 20/04/2011 11:15

Alice, that's brilliant, thank you! You too thumb if that's the one you meant too.

OP posts:
AliceWorld · 20/04/2011 11:12

found one!

AliceWorld · 20/04/2011 11:11

dire, glad it was useful

AliceWorld · 20/04/2011 11:11

thumb, they might be the same as what I'm trying to find. I've posted them about 3 times. From Jezebel, you tube clips about 3 mins long, different Disney princesses played by a woman? I can't find them either today.

OP posts:
Original poster
dirgeinvegas · 20/04/2011 11:08

Alice just looked around Pinkstinks - fabulous, thank you for the link.

OP posts:
itsabiggywhatdoidonow · 20/04/2011 11:08

I dont think the argument is the princess aspect, its the fact your mum is dismissive of your parenting choices and you are maybe too submissive.

tell your mum a bed is a long term investment and you will purchase a strong hard wearing bed that will last dd long beyond any infintile charecter. end of.

I dont agree on the whole school of thought about demoralising girly, princess, pink, high heels etc. I think a child brought up with a good sence of free thinking, equality, freedom, respect and an understanding of reality and fantacy will do well wether male or female.

Original poster
dirgeinvegas · 20/04/2011 11:06

Thanks thumb I would like to see that if you find it.

OP posts:
Original poster
dirgeinvegas · 20/04/2011 11:05

I think my issue is that despite having spoken about it, she still insists on trying buy princessy themed things. Even if she took DD to the shop and said "which themed bed would you like" and then went with whatever DD chose that would be better.

My mum keeps commenting on how DD is too independent and I need to get tough now (DD like to put the toothpaste on the brush herself, or get into the car herself - things like that. Time consuming and messy sometimes but hardly unruly). I wonder if the princess thing is her wish that DD was more passive. I accept that I may be over thinking this...

OP posts:
thumbbunny · 20/04/2011 11:05

I was trying to find a youtube thing I saw that had grown women pretending to be some of the Disney princesses and highlighting their negative aspects but I can't find them now!
Will keep looking - they're VERY good.