Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Disney Princesses - Can someone help me get my argument straight please?

85 replies

dirgeinvegas · 20/04/2011 10:30

I read a fantastic blog last year about how Disney princesses portrayed women very negatively- Disney princesses are very sexual, spend their lives waiting to be rescued by a man, beauty valued over anything else etc.

It made me evaluate how I want to bring up DD and the kinds of toys and clothes we buy for DD (2.3) and whilst I don't go as far as to reject princessy/"girly" gifts from family, if they ask I encourage them to buy her something else.

So, yesterday, my mother asked me if I planned to stop co-sleeping with DD. I said we'd considered it but she doesn't have her own bed at the moment so we'll probably do something over the summer before DC2 arrives. She said she'd seen a beautiful princess bed and she wanted to buy it for DD.

I said I'd prefer her not to have a princess bed and tried to explain my reasons but it sounded a bit weak to be honest. It made much more sense when I read the article. My mum just sighed said "yes, but she's a girly girl and she if she'd like the bed then surely that means its her choice". I struggled to argue with that one (except the "girly girl" bit). I pointed out that she also likes Thomas the Tank Engine and so might like a bed like that but she said that's a boys bed and asked why I can't just let DD be a girl. I said I am letting her be a girl just not by my mothers definition of what it is to be a girl.

So basically all my waffle is asking for some help in explaining to my mum why I don't want DD to have a princess bed. Interestingly, it's princess bed or buy a bed ourselves and my step-dad may just buy it for her anyway which would infuriate me.

I want my parents to understand, even if they don't agree. Princess is just the latest battle. I'm still working on "good girls don't do X" or their obsession with trying to get my energetic, climbing, running 2 year old to wear pink dresses (have you tried climbing a slide in a dress?).

I also can't find the blog anymore but am still searching...

OP posts:
manitz · 20/04/2011 12:21

oh, also my dds have had barbies and polly pocket. again discarded. I read it somewhere else but i think the fact that they do loads of sport has been one of the reasons they've been less interested in that type of toy. Though they do spend a lot of time pregnant and breastfeeding Confused

manitz · 20/04/2011 12:18

i can't imagine that would induce sleep, how much is going on there (plus agree with bonsoir). which aspect of it do you think your mum liked? Don't worry i'm not expecting an answer. I was imagining something more like this www.pricerighthome.com/Disney_Princess_Junior_Toddler_Bed/DPR216.html

Although, frankly, either way Just Say No.

Bonsoir · 20/04/2011 12:14

Tell her you think that your DD needs something calmer than that bed for her room.

AliceWorld · 20/04/2011 12:13

That bed is horrendous! Sounds like you're doing a good job dirge.

Original poster
dirgeinvegas · 20/04/2011 12:12

The bed's quite hilarious isn't it? How could you fall asleep in that?

Thanks Barry I'm not sure I can even compromise on the bedding.

dittany I meant to say no, she wouldn't allow the same bed for my two year old nephew who is actually in need of a bed as his parents think it's time for him to move from his cot. I think I'll tell her to buy it for him Grin

OP posts:
Original poster
dirgeinvegas · 20/04/2011 12:10

some other people.

OP posts:
Original poster
dirgeinvegas · 20/04/2011 12:09

dittany You're right, my mum has all kinds of issues but boundary ones are definite. I suspect she has NPD after someone linked a site called Daughters of Narcissistic Mothers. She ticks most of the boxes and they talk about how NPD mothers feel that they can comment/control all areas of their daughters lives. She doesn't respect her children's boundaries at all. It took me until my 30's to see the impact of her parenting on my life and so I suppose I am trying my best to let DD grow up to be the person she wants to be and not who I think she should be.

I certainly don't want her limited by thinking that because she is a girl she has to act a certain way. Perhaps that's why I feel more strongly about princesses than other people.

OP posts:
Bonsoir · 20/04/2011 12:09

Ooh that bed is real crime against aesthetics. Yuck!

bigbadbarry · 20/04/2011 12:08

I agree with all the arguments and dislike Disney princess stuff - I have three girls so I feel like King Canute at times! There are some good non-soppy princessy books when she gets older but as a practical keeping-the-peace solution for now: plain bed, disney bedding? (You can always buy non-disney bedding for when it is in the wash, too)

Original poster
dirgeinvegas · 20/04/2011 12:05

I think it's like this one Manitz - all the white paint in the world isn't disguising that thing Grin

Yes, I am quite strong on my boundaries with my mum and she did comment the other day that she is irritated by some of my parenting choices (bf past 6 months, cosleeping, not smacking) but she thinks she's done quite well in hiding it. I'd debate that actually...

I have to say I laughed at this "I was never shot at by my daughters". I do try to have balance at home and recognise that she will want to play with things which are traditionally girls toys. I know it would be as harmful to only allow her to play with "boys" toys. I think my point is that I don't choose for her but I may not buy her certain things (Bratz, Disney Princess, Barbie) but if she plays with them elsewhere, fine.

OP posts:
dittany · 20/04/2011 12:00

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster
dirgeinvegas · 20/04/2011 11:57

Hahaha Bonsoir I could never argue against a real princess (p.s. what circles you mix in! I'd have been dusting off the posh biscuits...).

OP posts:
manitz · 20/04/2011 11:56

'she's requested that dc2 be less independent'Shock Grin. i have a few issues with my folks, they follow the kids round and my mum has a massive panic if they approach the stairs (they are 8,6 and 2) and insists on going down with them, i think she's only just stopped peeling grapes. They don't believe in bedtimes then get annoyed when they misbehave cos they are knackered. they do quite a bit of childcare for me and leave my house a state, they feed them in front of the tv but we only eat at the table and they feed them loads of sweets. The most annoying thing is she buys them clothes but doesn't ask what we need. We don't quite have enough money coming in to cover what is going out so I'd really appreciate help buying shoes or uniform but instead they get even more party dresses.grr.

what can i do though? they are too old to learn new tricks and i've got over discussing it with them. if i suggest i want things done anotehr way it's seen as a criticism of their parenting.

I'm sorry i went off on one there but i have the odd gripe. Your situation sounds similar. Although my parents dont always follow them I have set up boundaries and it was one of teh shocks I had when i had my first child, it's quite a learning experience - I think you need to think about how you are going to manage your mum's control. Every time mine get the kids soemthing i say, you know I need this, if you want to buy something could you look out for a xxx. At least then my mum feels useful and I don't cry over the wasted money.

I'm sorry, I know there is a feminist argument here too but I'm on the fence on that one. I tend to think if you ban things they become more of an issue and more desirable. i like moderate parenting, a bit of everything - so as far as the princesses go we had that and we had traintracks/lego and more traditional boy toys. i liked to think we were pretty gender neutral until I had a boy and realised the intense love he'd have for vehicles. Also i was never shot by my daughters.

Just thought. let her buy the princess bed then pretend it was damaged and paint it neutral white/cream. or how about one like this: www.gltc.co.uk/fcp/product/-/bedroom_furniture_toddler_beds/Stella-Toddler-Bed/10000001697 which is girly but non-branded (in case she grows out of princesses).

Bonsoir · 20/04/2011 11:56

Well, there were certainly no clues in her dress Grin

alexpolismum · 20/04/2011 11:55

wow, I bet that doesn't happen very often, Bonsoir!

Original poster
dirgeinvegas · 20/04/2011 11:55

bullet you're right about the fairy tales. I posted a link further up which suggested the stories our children are told in their formative years do impact their self image. I had thought that having a daughter made me think about these things more but now I think just that I am a parent is reason enough...

OP posts:
alexpolismum · 20/04/2011 11:54

I particularly like the santa hat! Grin

Bonsoir · 20/04/2011 11:54

DD invited a little girl from school (not her class) home for a playdate recently. At tea time we were chatting around the kitchen table and the little girl mentioned that she was a princess. A Real One.

And it was true Shock

alexpolismum · 20/04/2011 11:53

bullet - I never thought about The Ugly Duckling like that before. I always thought it was a story to encourage children who weren't very popular or thought themselves ugly, to show them that there was light at the end of the tunnel.

Original poster
dirgeinvegas · 20/04/2011 11:51

Grin Alexpolismum

My DD dressed herself in cow print baby legwarmers, a red t-shirt and a santa hat and told me she was going to work...

OP posts:
bullet234 · 20/04/2011 11:50

There are a lot of old fairy tales which are very grating as well. The TinderBox, where the woman who helps the soldier at the start is killed by him just because he wants the box (and he's the hero of the story). The Little Mermaid, where she is made to suffer both emotionally and physically. The Red Shoes, where having even brief independant thoughts means the girl is punished. And then there's The Ugly Duckling, which implies a being will only be accepted and liked once they are aesthetically pleasing.

alexpolismum · 20/04/2011 11:45

Princesses don't necessarily have to be like the Disney versions!

My dd came running in yesterday, for the first time shouting "I'm a princess!" (she's 3) She had put her wellie boots on, was wielding a toy fish and wearing a teatowel round her neck like a scarf. I've no idea where it came from, but I hope that's the extent of her princess phase!

Original poster
dirgeinvegas · 20/04/2011 11:45

Bonsoir I don't mind if DD eventually wants to dress up (she has no interest at the moment) as something very "girly" or something traditional seen as boys dress up. I just don't want her to only have the option to dress up as a girly girl.

I'm going to say no thanks to the bed. It's too much hassle. The only reason she offered to buy us a bed for DD (who has never slept alone yet so has given no indication that she'd even use the thing) is because my mum saw the Princess one and loved it. If we don't want the princess one for DD then she doesn't want to buy us a bed. I suppose that's part of my niggle too.

OP posts:
Original poster
dirgeinvegas · 20/04/2011 11:41

Silver DD likes wearing dresses too sometimes, she likes to twirl and watch the skirt bit float about. She also likes to climb hills and slide down on her belly so I try to be practical. To be honest, at the moment, she isn't too interested in what she wears she just wants to get out the house and play. It's more the grandparents idea that she should be in them all the time. My MIL thinks I am actually cruel and says that if DD was her DD then she would have her dressed in sugar pink dresses with frills on every day. Bit boring IMO...

I agree with what you're saying about balancing the views out.

OP posts:
JuicyOlive · 20/04/2011 11:40

Leaving aside all the princess arguments, why not just buy a normal bed. We nearly bought a bed with flowers on it for DD when she was about 3, but just got a plain bed. She's still using the same bed now she's nearly a teenager. Just get a normal bed, and dress it up a bit like someone suggested and it'll save money in the long run.

FWIW, DD and my mother conspired together at that age to get all the sickly Disney gear when she was younger, and she's now growing up to be a good feminist despite the Disney phase.