Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Disney Princesses - Can someone help me get my argument straight please?

85 replies

dirgeinvegas · 20/04/2011 10:30

I read a fantastic blog last year about how Disney princesses portrayed women very negatively- Disney princesses are very sexual, spend their lives waiting to be rescued by a man, beauty valued over anything else etc.

It made me evaluate how I want to bring up DD and the kinds of toys and clothes we buy for DD (2.3) and whilst I don't go as far as to reject princessy/"girly" gifts from family, if they ask I encourage them to buy her something else.

So, yesterday, my mother asked me if I planned to stop co-sleeping with DD. I said we'd considered it but she doesn't have her own bed at the moment so we'll probably do something over the summer before DC2 arrives. She said she'd seen a beautiful princess bed and she wanted to buy it for DD.

I said I'd prefer her not to have a princess bed and tried to explain my reasons but it sounded a bit weak to be honest. It made much more sense when I read the article. My mum just sighed said "yes, but she's a girly girl and she if she'd like the bed then surely that means its her choice". I struggled to argue with that one (except the "girly girl" bit). I pointed out that she also likes Thomas the Tank Engine and so might like a bed like that but she said that's a boys bed and asked why I can't just let DD be a girl. I said I am letting her be a girl just not by my mothers definition of what it is to be a girl.

So basically all my waffle is asking for some help in explaining to my mum why I don't want DD to have a princess bed. Interestingly, it's princess bed or buy a bed ourselves and my step-dad may just buy it for her anyway which would infuriate me.

I want my parents to understand, even if they don't agree. Princess is just the latest battle. I'm still working on "good girls don't do X" or their obsession with trying to get my energetic, climbing, running 2 year old to wear pink dresses (have you tried climbing a slide in a dress?).

I also can't find the blog anymore but am still searching...

OP posts:
New posts on this thread. Refresh page
thumbbunny · 23/04/2011 09:34

I suppose you could always let your mum pay out for the bed and then redecorate it in plain white paint? But that would be a bit bad, I guess. I don't know how ickily princessy it is though - might not be possible to eradicate the princessyness.

Original poster
dirgeinvegas · 23/04/2011 09:17

Thanks Sharon. Yes, I suppose DD will probably come across DPs herself - through friends or possibly through my mum anyway and if she likes them then I won't object because she'll probably just want them more but I will have to have think about how I talk about them.

Yes, the bed thing came up following her asking if I'd do anything differently this time with DC2. I suspect it's about trying to influence how I parent this next child so that it's more in line with her ideas. Though just because DD is in her own bed doesn't mean I'll get any more sleep.

OP posts:
SharonGless · 22/04/2011 23:18

It is the insiduous message that it sends plus the pure merchandising aspect that I hate. I have to say that if my mother said it is the princess bed or nothing I would be on my way to the bed shop to buy her a new wooden plain bed. However if you are co sleeping do you actually need one yet or is your mother taking over that decision of when you decide DD needs her own bed.

I have long held the view that Disney princesses are the work of the devil. However DD has taken a different view. Her current favourite is Belle but her favourite colour is blue. She is very determined and independent but where possible I encourage this. Yes it takes more time but I want her to grow up being a strong and independent woman.

If I have to have the fucking DP in my house then I have them on my terms and I try and twist the story. We haven't watched any movies of them yet and the stories are slightly different in our house! Wink I have to say that I did relent and take both DC to see Tangled and was pleasantly surprised.

justventingreally · 20/04/2011 20:06

I understand why you don't want your mother to choose her bed, I wouldn't want that either.

But I (personally) don't really see the problem with little girls being exposed to this kind of stuff as long as they're exposed to everything else too. My DD1 has some disney princess vests and a disney princess potty, she also has thomas the tank engine stuff. She likes Peppa pig, Winnie the Pooh, the Gruffalo.

I guess I take an everything in moderation view - I don't understand why you would choose to 'ban' stuff rather than expose her to everything and let her make her own mind up about what is crap and what isn't.

FWIW my mother banned dolls and Barbies and I was desperate for dolls throughout my childhood - it made no sense to me that other people could have them and I couldn''t and it still makes no sense to me now.

But then, I don't think pink stinks either - I find it quite a cheerful colour!

noodle69 · 20/04/2011 16:10

I liked all the disney films growing up and I was quite outspoken biggest loudmouth in school. Definitely not a pushover in any shape or form. I havent grown up to be a pushover either and my daughter definitely isnt and she is only 3 understatement of the year She hates pink, is extremely confident but she has still watched all the disney films.

My daughter would never want that bed though so I wouldnt get one of those personally as she wouldnt like it. It sounds like neither you or your daughter like this bed anyway so just go out buy a bed and then tell your mum someone gave you 1 and no point in buying another.

alexpolismum · 20/04/2011 14:47

there is another thread about princesses in AIBU

manitz · 20/04/2011 13:35

oh, yeah I meant to say, I thought letting the kids watch disney was part of their movie education - it's a complete genre and there are many jokes referencing disney if you haven't seen them it's hard to get other jokes. i've just bought fantasia and then we are moving on to woody allen and the marx brothers. To miss out on disney completely would be a complete gap in her education imo.

monkeycat · 20/04/2011 13:33

It seems to me too , that it's not entirely about princesses.
Definately more about your mother over-ruling you on your parenting choices.

On the princess and fairy tale issue I think it is good for children to have exposure to them but for you to discuss these things with them and to be able to put them into context for them.

DD1's last project at school was on Fairy Tales Hmm .
For homework they had to write their own fairy tale and had a list of words to include , one of which was 'hero'.
We had to have quite an extensive discussion for her to see that the hero didn't necessarily have to be the prince .

Barefoot Books do some interesting princess stort books.

store.barefootbooks.com/uk/the-barefoot-book-of-princess-stories-3.html

There are plenty of kick ass princesses in there :)

manitz · 20/04/2011 13:33

She sounds a bit more controlling than my mum and unfair too. I just don't think they will understand why you feel like this. As I said they're kind of too old to change their minds at this point. But I also think if you put your foot down over every aspect of princessness then they will understand even less and see you as trying to prove a point.

I hate the eating in my front room, when i have complained i have basically been told that as they're doing childcare (for me and for free) they'll do it in what ever way they can cope with. Fair enough I think. If i get home when they are eating I put it on the table and we follow my rules. for me it's a temporary situation.

Having said that small compromises are ok for family harmony, i also agree with sardinequeen that you don't want to let your mum in on the bed story.

overmydeadbody · 20/04/2011 13:29

When your DD is older, and starts to enjoy watching dvds, I recommend the Studio Ghibli films as great alternatives to Disney. Their female role models are strong, independent, feisty, sensitive fighters. None of this happily ever after crap or needing saving by men.

southofthethames · 20/04/2011 13:29

dirgeinvegas - yes, I thought she'd say that! You know, sounds like she likes the product herself and just wants an excuse to buy it. I thought it looked more like a party prop (like a hard version of a bouncy castle) than a bed.......very camp!... ahem.....she could always buy it as a toy, put a foam layer on it and use it as a pretend toy ship or princess castle....I certainly wouldn't use it as a bed. But she'll have to keep it in her home, not yours. It seriously has a problem in the taste department, lol........... One of my inlaws fills up her (large) house with large toys for her grandkids, from bouncy pools, toy bikes, mini table and chairs, etc etc...it gives them a lot of fun stuff to do when she has them over to babysit, but she's not imposing her choices on her daughter, which works out quite well. She's not rolling in money, it's just one of those old houses with a large area downstairs and she doesn't keep much large furniture - her tv is v small.

BugsnBites · 20/04/2011 13:20

That pink bed is one hideous monstrosity! Tell her to buy one of those sports-car beds - they're COOL.

However, I wouldn't worry about the princess stuff. Just confine it to dressing up & dolls, keep the bedroom decor largely free of pink fluffy crowns.

My youngest loves to dress up like a princess - big pink dress, plus sword and chainmail helmet for dragon-slaying. It's no fun sitting around waiting for some boy to do what you can do yourself right now!

bigbadbarry · 20/04/2011 13:17

For me "I will buy you this bed I have chosen, or you can buy one yourself" would be sufficient to make me buy it myself regardless of my opinions.

Original poster
dirgeinvegas · 20/04/2011 12:58

What is wrong with me??

Simple link:

allthatsazz.blogspot.com/2010/07/princesses-powerlessness-porn.html

OP posts:
Original poster
dirgeinvegas · 20/04/2011 12:58

Try again

The blog post that made me really think about the messages princesses give out to our children Porn and Powerlessness allthatsazz.blogspot.com/2010/07/princesses-powerlessness-porn.html

OP posts:
Original poster
dirgeinvegas · 20/04/2011 12:55

I get the choice argument, I've had it with myself several times but DD is 2 and she would eat chips and cake for tea every day if she could choose. She's even asked for a drink of wine before today. Sometimes being a parent means saying no to things we believe are harmful for our children. I hold a strong view and some might think it's extreme but I do think pushing princesses at a 2 year old could be harmful.

To be honest, my DD is so lively, if she had a real choice I think she'd be far more creative than a princess bed.

Here's the link to the blog post porn and powerlessness allthatsazz.blogspot.com/2010/07/princesses-powerlessness-porn.html

It makes a lot of sense to me, enough to make me wary of how much princess stuff is in her life. A cutlery set - probably not to influential. A giant bed, shaped like a carriage which encourages her to pretend to be a princess - perhaps a bit more influence.

southofthethames I did say we'd seen a lovely white bed that matches DD's wardrobe etc but she said if we want that then buy that instead (implying she won't). The fact that she's offering to pay only for the bed which she wants DD to have feels like another way of controlling the situation.

Sardine yes, I think I'll wait to see if she brings it up again and then just say no thanks.

I do wish they'd try to understand though. I'm not doing it to be awkward.

OP posts:
suzikettles · 20/04/2011 12:48

If your dd had been mad for the princess bed then, well, there might be an argument for it (mind you, it sounds like a crime against good taste to me tbh, but I'd have no truck with a Thomas bed either).

But she hasn't asked for it, she's not interested in it. It sounds like it's your mum who wants a princess bed. She's a grown woman so I guess she can buy it for herself if she wants but she shouldn't be foisting it onto you.

SardineQueen · 20/04/2011 12:36

Don't let her get involved in all of this. It's a way in for her.

You are cosleeping so don't even need a bed
The bed she has chosen is (princesses aside) absolutely hideous!
DD hasn't asked for it or chosen it
And it goes against what you want for DD ie opportunity to be how she feels rather than having "girly" rammed down her throat

So don't get into any arguments, just "thank you for your kind offer but we have decided to decline" and if pressed why pull out the impractical, she'll grow out of it (size wise let alone princess wise), that you would rather something more flexible and bigger that will last longer. And then don't be drawn. Thanks but no thanks.

And then keep a close eye on her - she sounds awful TBH

Camerondiazepam · 20/04/2011 12:34

There's a funny moment in Shrek 3 when the princesses (think it is Snow White, Sleeping Beauty and one other?) are supposed to be getting "ready to fight", which they do by assuming the position they wait to be rescued in. Fiona gives them a right telling off - good old girl.

southofthethames · 20/04/2011 12:30

whoa! That Sophia single bed is pricey!! :-)

Anythingwithagiraffeonit · 20/04/2011 12:30

Not 'way' the movies! Watch them :p

southofthethames · 20/04/2011 12:29

Tell her you want a neutral looking bed so that you don't have to replace it if she likes other characters later......If she insists, say you've already ordered one and you'll return hers??? Or say thank you but you'd all prefer books with princess in the story rather than sleeping on one?

Boundary issues are very difficult - I guess most of the time it is about not wanting to let go and fearing your grown up son/daughter will leave you and never see you again. Maybe you can try explaining that you enjoy her company and her efforts, but there are some things that you need to do and decide for yourself- and that you'd much prefer her to spend her money on a nice treat for herself?

bullet234 · 20/04/2011 12:28

I used to love playing with my Sindy doll as a child. The stories usually had Sindy scaling mountains, fighting against evil monsters, fighting against ghosts and erm, having her head ripped off for the sheer fun of it.

Anythingwithagiraffeonit · 20/04/2011 12:26

Maybe I'm missing something, but what's wrong with liking Disney princesses?

My DD is a bit young admittedly (6 months) but when the time comes I think I'd love for her to want to dress up / way the movies / go to Disney world etc...

I loved barbie and all the Disney films when I was young and I don't think it's done me any harm :)

And btw... It's not just Mulan who doesn't fit the Disney princess stereotype... There's Belle, Pocahontas, Nala in the lion king, Ariel was pretty fiesty...

vintageteacups · 20/04/2011 12:26

Thing is, if it's all about feminism, surely true feminism would mean that your dd could choose herself whether she wanted a princess bed?

Aside from that, could you suggest something that will last longer than a princess bed to your mother?

like this?

Even if your dd were into princesses, most probably by the time she's 7, she'll hate them and want Hannah Montana or similar Grin. It'd be more environmentally ethical to have a bed that will last her for years.

That said - I actually see the Disney Princesses as quite strong women. Take Jasmine for instance; she ran away from the assumed life she was supposed to lead and met Aladin.

Or Pochahontas (yes, I know she wasn't actually a princess) - a strong woman who in real life, left her country of birth and travelled thousands of miles to England to see the world.

You could try and make it more than it is - rescued by princes etc but tbh, it's because those original fairy tales were written in a time when women were not seen as important as men. Disney today though, I feel, have tried to sort of correct this. Whilst the stories, such as Cinderella and Sleeping Beaty, obviously have elements of 'girl waiting to be rescued by dashing prince, they have good morals and strong lead females.