How has radical feminist critique of vaginal intercourse influenced you?

"You are astoundingly ignorant about women's history"

Would be great if you could point out how through all continents and through all time, when women have been oppressed it has been by other women and men have had nothing to do with it whatsoever.

TIA

Oh, would be great if you could explain how groups like the Taleban and lawmakers/law enforcement types in Saudi follow this pattern. In fact can that be the starting point? How men in those countries have nothing whatsoever to do with the oppression of women. Look forward to it

Bonsoir, asserting that someone is astoundingly ignorant, when you have invented the thing they're supposed to be ignorant about, is not a convincing argument.

Do you honestly think that women stumbled across the idea to make their girl children as ignorant and uptight about sex as they could, just for the hell of it? Do you really think men had nothing to do with htat? Do you think that men wanting virgin brides was all women's fault?

It is simply absurd to argue that.

You are astoundingly ignorant about women's history (and men's history, too).

God Anna you are being even more ridiculous than normal.

The notion that women would have chosen to bring their children up repressed about sex, without any reference to men, when men ruled the fucking world and the economic well-being of your girl child depended on one of them being willing to marry her, is simply wilfully daft. You are determined to blame women for men's oppression of them, you sound like a MRA.

me and you noodle have really lowered the tone haa [bublush]

Your not sue I hate lovey dovey Im more of a call me a dirty slut girl lol

same pretty much treat rough etc, so different what people would expect from me, I feel bad saying it especially in this section I find 'lovemaking' a bit ick!
but each to their own.

Your not sue I hate lovey dovey Im more of a call me a dirty slut girl lol

I think im the only woman who isnt lovey dovey making love,

I'd rather a good pounding [bublush]

That's all very well if you are obsessed with like 69 [wink ] - neither if us are partial to it actually, it would be the lowest on my to do list of sex positions .

Mal - You dont have to only have a few minutes fucking. It depends on how long your bloke lasts. If hes one for quality over quantity then you can do 69, fucking then finish in 69. I dont often orgasm until the ending 69 just before him cause I know how to hold myself back so you are constantly on the edge over going over.

I definitely agree with annie you need to say what you want and women need to be brought up to say what they want in sex and all circumstances in life. Men love it when you order them about in bed in my experience and a woman should never be scared to say what they want.

Annie that clip is hilarious

AAARGH, Annie!

Annie I think that works well in some situations but not so much in others. Women in different countries where sexual liberation never happened should not be expected to behave in this way. I also think that a lot of younger and more inexperienced people may not have the confidence to do so, especially if the sex they are having is not as part of a longer term relationship. Ditto much older women who were brought up in completely different times (the ones who get "bothered"). Ideally yes of course everyone should be having fabulous sex with super-duper body confidence and open two way communication. In life it sometimes falls short of that aim!

IME anyway some men see sex as something that all parties should be enjoying, while some are just downright selfish, and there's not a lot you can do about that (apart from vote with your feet! ).

Here are some great tips, ladies!

Sakura, it is possible to have both at the same time you know. Or sometimes I'm so horny that foreplay consists of a quick tongueing to get him hard then I hop on, or even better, I'll just back onto him in a morning and get him inside me that way - really slow, sensous penetrative sex (with lots of kissing and caressing) is what does it for me these days, that's my idea of foreplay , followed by a good hard shagging. I think women who orgasm first by oral/whatever then only get a few minutes of actual fucking, are missing out spectacularly, I say that because that's how sex used to be for us and although it was good, it simply doesn't compare to the great sex we have now.

Is no-one considering the angle that if men are crap in bed, it's up to the women to educate them instead of putting up with a shit sex life? No-one is born knowing how to be a great shag, man or woman. I hate to think that any couple are so repressed that neither will talk about what they enjoy and how to make sex better. You don't even need to talk, if that makes you uncomfortable, just guide your partner to the right place and make appreciative noises when they get it right.

Most men I know really get off on seeing the women enjoy herself too, so it's not like men are just selfish bastards only interested in their own pleasure.

Both partners need to take responsibility for their own and their partner's pleasure.

It's quite strange to see you being so reductive here, Bonsoir. You're saying that women propagated fear & ignorance amongst women, as if there'd been no male influence on that choice. Of course there was - those women lived in male-dominate societies and families; they accepted, for the most part, that what men said was right was, indeed, best.

The distaff power you're thinking of is an underhand response to overt oppression: women exerted power in allowed areas, but that certainly didn't include contradicting Father's ideas about a daughter's sexuality!

maids

yeah Bonsoir, women just took it upon themselves to bind their daughters' feet in China. Men had nothing to do with it. They weren't even around.

If a woman was taught to be repressed by her mother it was because it was a male fetish to marry a woman who was "innocent" and virginlike as SQ says.

But frigidity was made up by men along with the word "prudes" to describe women who refused to have sex for whatever reason. Oh and guess who the BIGGEST prudes of all were. The early radical feminists who [shock horror] tried to bring in legislation to stop fathers, lords and landowners shagging their daughters and mades.

Those prudes . Those frigid women.

Your defintion of frigid i.e difficulty expressing emotions is far more applicable to men than women

Other countries, religions, times. Virginity has been highly prized and still is in many places. In our own culture women who have lots of sexual partners are not treated in the same way as men who do by many sections of society.

You can't take the men out. Men wanted virgin brides. Male run religions prized chastity. Some religions preach sex only for the sake of procreation for crying out loud. Mothers had to ensure their daughters were virgins. What better way than to scare the bejeezus out of the about sex? Result = repressed and terrified of sex but also a virgin. Job done.

Of course there have been times and places when things were more sexually liberal for everyone.

For a long time, women were not encouraged (and, indeed, discouraged) from knowing anything about their bodies. My grandmother gave birth to three children in a twilight sleep and was told by her doctor that her "woman's parts" were the "wrong way round" and he was surprised she managed to get pregnant at all. She had no idea what that meant and just accepted what the doctor said. I suspect that he meant she had a retroverted uterus. Twilight sleep was used for a long time - imagine having a few contractions then waking up and a baby being brought to you wrapped in a blanket!

Not to mention all that crap about hysteria being caused by the uterus moving around the body. Totally bonkers

Mostly fathers stayed right out of the education of their daughters and didn't get involved at all, and that was because women decided that was how it was going to be as much as anything. Women had a lot more power than a lot of posters seem to think.

I'm not talking about "Victorian" attitudes. Other countries, religions, times.

The point is that "enjoying your body" has not been on the agenda at all times, far from it, and women were brought up by other women in a repressed emotional state, without the collusion of men.

In lots of places access to contraception is still scant and childbirth comes with huge risks. If I were in that position I think I might be "off sex" somewhat.

And it's not so long ago that it was the case here too - my Gran was one of 11, and my friends from Ireland have families that large the next generation along - for many of them their parents are one of lots.

Not forgetting that before the sexual "revolution" women weren't supposed to like sex, it was unladylike. Which is where some of Bonsoir's women are coming from - a Victorian attitude to sex and nudity (although obv not all Victorian women felt like that but they were "supposed" to). These attitudes don't change overnight, they change more slowly through the generations.

When rape in marriage was legal until relatively recently, it shows up the kind of standards of "lovemaking" that were considered acceptable in marriage until really very recently. ie there was no comparison or laws. If you were with a man who you had a great sex life, lucky for you. If you were with a man who liked to rape you then tough, that was your sex life.