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Original poster

Looking for support and inspiration - DP says feminism is 'totally outdated'

218 replies

Indiestarr · 16/04/2011 00:50

Was having a chat with DP tonight over dinner and it degenerated into an argument. Initially we were talking about Islamic attitudes to women (in light of France banning the niqab), and it broadened into a discussion of attitudes here. I was making the point that even though oppressed/minority groups such as women/gays/whoever are in a pretty good position here, at this present moment in time, it's worth remembering that attitudes don't always move forwards and can infact move backwards, and so rights we've attained can actually be snatched away if we get complacent. My broader point was that feminism is still really important because even though a lot of the battles women have fought have been won, these victories can always be undermined and even reversed if we don't pay attention.

DP thought this argument was 'banal' because 'it's meaningless to speculate on what could happen', plus he pretty forcefully insisted that feminism is 'totally outdated' and asked me to explain why exactly things were so bad for me as a woman. I admit I had no ready examples of why things were 'so bad' Blush but I did ask him how he would feel if our DD aged 7 came to him aged 18 and asked to have the money for a boob job because the boys didn't find her natural body attractive enough (ie she didn't look like a porn star). He said 'I'm sure she'd have more sense than that.'

What has left me reeling is the claim that feminism is 'totally outdated' and that, as he's effectively saying, women have nothing to complain about. To be honest I don't find myself complaining that much but that doesn't mean the battles have all been won. I also think it's important not to get complacent. Can anyone on here cheer me up with a little support :(

OP posts:
Thruaglassdarkly · 16/04/2011 11:33

Seth - yes, it shocked me too. The head gets a lot of positive female role models in to give talks to the girls about careers etc to inspire them, but he says most aren't that interested and are more interested in their clothes, hair and make-up. He keeps telling me that feminism amongst the younger generation's dead. Am sure it's not, but perhaps it's less attractive to a generation of women who've watched their mothers working full-time at career jobs and are still having to come home and do everything, as has been the case in many households (not mine, I have to say. My husband does loads with the kids).

Bonsoir · 16/04/2011 11:26

OP - if your DD goes to her parents aged 18 and asks for a boob job, that will be because you, as parents, have failed to educate her and not for any other reason.

BertieBotts · 16/04/2011 11:23

Get him to look at the thread I started about everyday sexism. Okay most of the things mentioned are minor, but they add up to a general feeling of being less. Maybe that's hard to understand, I don't know. The thread got very long depressingly quickly.

sungirltan · 16/04/2011 11:01

of course feminism is relevent! i think its more relevent now because sujugation and objectification is getting worse. here is an example. i used to work a few years back in an office inside a warehouse. when i started there i was one of only 3 women. the guys in the office were gentle family men and the guys in the warehouse were all 40 plus. i never had any nonsense from any of them or felt vulnerable because i was one of the only girls - i know i know why should i? well exactly. after about 9 months the warehouse expanded and took on a load of agency staff which were all early 20's guys. everything changed and i was harrassed constantly and propositoned. my point is that the femisnist movement did make some changes but i think young lbokes think it doesnt apply to htem and its all back to square one. obviously the rise of lads mags is pretty much to blame :( actually this happened again when i was a recruitment consultant - office full of women and a few older men/dad - new younger bloke started and the atmosphere changed and i was getting messages on the interanl system asking what colour knickers i was wearing :( after that incident i had male friends queseing up to wait outside work for him and 'ahve a word' - this made me feel even worse!!

Bumperlicioso · 16/04/2011 11:00

Great, thanks Porto :)

Indiestarr, this attitude, that feminism is over and no longer relevant, is obviously a prevalent one. I will never forgive Stuart Rose for this comment.

DarthNiqabi · 16/04/2011 10:52

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Portoeufino · 16/04/2011 10:51

no photos!

Bumperlicioso · 16/04/2011 10:45

There aren't any photos of me or the DDs in the version you are seeing?

I'd quite like to add a page of recommended reading, but I think that would have been a bridge too far with DH!

Bumperlicioso · 16/04/2011 10:44

Yes you can link to it, but if I were more well read and had more time I could do a much better job. The researcher in me hates to have all these stats without proper references! I just trawled the internet for the info.

sethstarkaddersmackerel · 16/04/2011 10:42

bloody well done Bumper.

Portoeufino · 16/04/2011 10:41

That is fabulous Bumper - well your efforts - sadly not the content! Can I link to it on FB?

Bumperlicioso · 16/04/2011 10:32

Just uploading to google docs, will link in a minute. It's really really rough and ready. If anyone can make it better, add more stats then feel free. It was just the principles that I wanted to get across to DH.

Original poster
Indiestarr · 16/04/2011 10:20

Oh and just to answer your point about privileges and benefits (x-post) yes I'm sure you're right although he would obviously never acknowledge this. I do think it might be brought home to him as our DD grows up and he sees her through the eyes of society and other men - she has already said things like 'I don't like my body shape' 'Do I look fat in this' for example

OP posts:
dittany · 16/04/2011 10:18

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Original poster
Indiestarr · 16/04/2011 10:14

Dittany, so that you can update your facts and figures, just thought I should mention that there is infact now a solitary Asian female MP, Priti Patel in Witham. Still a pretty poor record...

OP posts:
InmaculadaConcepcion · 16/04/2011 10:09

Nice one, Bumper! I'd love to check it out.

dittany · 16/04/2011 10:09

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Original poster
Indiestarr · 16/04/2011 10:07

Bumper your PP presentation was mentioned earlier and I would love to see it - will indeed pm you, thanks.

OP posts:
dittany · 16/04/2011 10:06

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Original poster
Indiestarr · 16/04/2011 10:05

Thanks for all of your responses, some really great points. Thruaglassdarkly, the point about the grammar school is indeed interesting - and disturbing. All that struggle so that gifted, intelligent women can aim for a vacuous existence, chasing husbands a la Jane Austen Confused. I do hope it's a generalisation! Presumably there are others who do want to make something of themselves on their own terms, and seth's point about what happens when children come into the equation and parietals great (dreadful!) examples etc are very pertinent.

My point about us in the west was exactly as ElephantsandMiasmas says - we have to run to stay still. I have indeed read Backlash (most of it anyway!). The patriarchy does indeed push back - just give them an inch. And as far as the rest of the world goes there is clearly a huge need for feminism, no question.

Dittany, as far as our relationship goes we both work full time and share chores/childcare up to a point, but I am most definitely the default carer....

OP posts:
Bumperlicioso · 16/04/2011 10:05

Ooh just seen imaculada already said so. I promise when I get a chance I will google doc it and post a link.

Bumperlicioso · 16/04/2011 10:02

Dh and I had a similar argument this week. I responded by creating a power point presentation on why feminism is relevant as the father of 2 dds. He took it well. It's v rough and ready and not at all as good as it could be but if you pm me I could email it to you.

DarthNiqabi · 16/04/2011 09:59

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dittany · 16/04/2011 09:56

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