Looking for support and inspiration - DP says feminism is 'totally outdated'

It starts when we are babies. We mimic the people around us - facial expression, sounds. Copying others is vital.

Stupid impressionable babies eh

It continues as we pass through our childhoods. All of this is quite normal. Children look at the world around them and come to understand what is expected of them. The messages that they perceive often persist to adulthood, unquestioned. Hence the utter inability of most women to explain why some types of body hair need to be removed, but others can stay. Having been raised in this society, I understand in myself why leg hair and arm hair is different and one must go and one can stay. However I can also see that this position is illogical and somewhat ludicrous, and that actually it's just a (longstanding) fashion.

My 3 yo is quite influenced by her peers at nursery. I think this is quite normal and not a sign that I am a terrible parent. She certainly isn't getting her proclivity for pink, flowery dresses and lots of hair accessories from me Of course some of it may be her personality - again not something that I can or would want to have undue influence over (another point missed earlier - people often are just how they are, no matter what their parents do).

Anyway, humans are social/community based creatures. That's why our society is successful - and it works because people feel a drive (however subconscious) to fit in. People who don't understand the drive to fit in or refuse to do it are often ridiculed / cast out. The idea that any normal and sane person could be outside the realms of this drive is incorrect.

Quite, StayFrosty.

Bonsoir if you don't think you are influenced bythe society you live in, then you either lack a really basic standard of education or you are incredibly arrogant to imagine that you are the only human being ever to live on the planet and not actually imbibe any of the cultural influences by which you are surrounded. To genuinely believe that any person can ever live on earth and not be influenced by their culture, is to be an idiot frankly. Towering intellects like Einstein wouldn't claim such god-like status.

No, you'd have to be a robot/parrot (Interesting cross breed there! ) not to be influenced by society. You won't find a credible scientist out there who won't agree with that.

"Bonsoir Can you not see that the society we live in influences what we think are our own ideas?"

You may feel like a robot/parrot, but I don't, personally . Maybe that comes from living in a very multi-cultural way...

Well said!

Haven't read the whole thread but I would suggest that women losing careers and jobs because they have children, the continuing existence of a glass ceiling, the under-representation of women in government, industry and senior positions, the gender pay gap, the fact women do proportionately more of the household chores than men, that women do proportionately more childcare than men, the fact that it is only in the last couple of weeks that leave to care for a baby has been able to be shared with a man, the discimination against women of child-bearing age in the workplace and the lack of flexible jobs at a senior level are just a few bloody good examples of why feminism is still utterly relevant today.

Am quite that anyone would think it isn't!

Will read rest of thread now.

lol dittany! Those are quite scary! Bonsoir admits to trolling posting controversial points of view as she likes to study the reactions of us lesser mortals. She is clever, thin and lives in Paris and is therefore superior to the rest of us.

Oh lol at Bonsoir, you are having us all on, surely? Very funny!

If older women's breasts are horrid what should they look like?

In RL though how often have you met anyone with fillers, botox , breast implants etc. Its not like everyone is doing it everywhere is it? So I dont really think its that hard to resist it because it is only the minority that succumbs to this kind of thing. Marketers are obviously going to try it but ime most people have more sense than to do any of that

I find this so exhausting

women never fail in your duty to be sexy and attractive at all times

the breast thing is depressing- I came by these breasts honestly, they have aged with me as I have aged, nursed my children, and they are not disgusting

they are also not the breasts of a 15 year old ingenue

so WHAT

what age do you have to be before you retire from beauty? I envisage a generation of octogenarians with rock hard plastic breasts, Botox, fillers and fuck knows what else with rictus grins on otherwise immobile faces and it repulses me

it is just as crazy to try and maintain the physique of an 8 year old as to try and remain permanently 23

You want to not age? Die.

I am most upset that I seem to have missed all the fun!

LOL at the sheer madniss of Bonsoir

See, if you were a proper feminist sardine, you'd be on top every single time, and then they wouldn't get rubbed away, just bounced a little.

Tut tut.

Mine have been worn by all the the sex

That I got despite being a hairy feminist

How'd you 'wear' breasts anyway, d'you think, sardine? Is it something I should know from Style and Beauty?

You can see how some people's children might grow up thinking there is a mountain to climb to meet the beauty standard really, can't you