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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Looking for support and inspiration - DP says feminism is 'totally outdated'

218 replies

Indiestarr · 16/04/2011 00:50

Was having a chat with DP tonight over dinner and it degenerated into an argument. Initially we were talking about Islamic attitudes to women (in light of France banning the niqab), and it broadened into a discussion of attitudes here. I was making the point that even though oppressed/minority groups such as women/gays/whoever are in a pretty good position here, at this present moment in time, it's worth remembering that attitudes don't always move forwards and can infact move backwards, and so rights we've attained can actually be snatched away if we get complacent. My broader point was that feminism is still really important because even though a lot of the battles women have fought have been won, these victories can always be undermined and even reversed if we don't pay attention.

DP thought this argument was 'banal' because 'it's meaningless to speculate on what could happen', plus he pretty forcefully insisted that feminism is 'totally outdated' and asked me to explain why exactly things were so bad for me as a woman. I admit I had no ready examples of why things were 'so bad' Blush but I did ask him how he would feel if our DD aged 7 came to him aged 18 and asked to have the money for a boob job because the boys didn't find her natural body attractive enough (ie she didn't look like a porn star). He said 'I'm sure she'd have more sense than that.'

What has left me reeling is the claim that feminism is 'totally outdated' and that, as he's effectively saying, women have nothing to complain about. To be honest I don't find myself complaining that much but that doesn't mean the battles have all been won. I also think it's important not to get complacent. Can anyone on here cheer me up with a little support :(

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IWouldNotCouldNotWithAGoat · 19/04/2011 19:25
Bonsoir · 19/04/2011 08:58

"Bonsoir, you've been letting me down lately"

See, I think that is a very revealing use of language and perspective on responsibility.

IWouldNotCouldNotWithAGoat · 19/04/2011 06:30

Bonsoir, you've been letting me down lately but this thread is some of your better work.

Grin
JaneS · 19/04/2011 00:11

Well, obviously I've not been on the threads in question so may be misguided, but on the strength of this one I think you're being a bit harsh to say she's a troll. She kept on-topic, which is more than I can manage even when I'm trying, and I didn't think she was as rude as some people I've seen on here who're really trying to stir things.

I may well be showing my naive side here though.

Beachcomber · 18/04/2011 23:21

Bonsoir did this on the patriarchy thread as well - posted all lots of crap whilst sneering at others. This poster is turning into a parody of herself (on the feminist section at least). It is trolling really, even if the poster concerned has been on MN for a long time and manages to behave herself elsewhere on the forum.

The thought of someone sitting at home and saying, I'm a bit bored, I think I'll go and poke fun at the feminists is, a bit, pathetic really. It is the weird wink that does my head in the most though.

(Don't bother engaging with me Anna, I can't be bothered with you anymore.)

Portoeufino · 18/04/2011 23:12

I have disagreed with dittany LOADS in the past. Have fallen out, it could be said. I might not agree with what she says sometimes, in fact sometimes I am in violent oppostiton. But on the other hand I totally respect her knowledge and her viewpoint has often given me cause to think.

JaneS · 18/04/2011 22:35

I dunno ... forcing your head up your arse probably does keep it pert. Worth every contortion!

HerBEggs · 18/04/2011 22:31

No her derriere is too petite for her to disappear up it. Grin

Portoeufino · 18/04/2011 22:26

dittany, but I think what Bonsoir does IS trolling in the normal sense of the word. She is a long term poster and posts in intelligent sentences - but what she does often IS trolling. She posts to get a reaction. She admitted in the past that she likes to study us lesser mortals. Personally I think she disapppeared up her own derriere many years ago.

Indiestarr · 18/04/2011 22:21

Thanks HerBEggs, that's a great idea, I've been intending to tackle the porn threads.

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aliceliddell · 18/04/2011 19:18

LOL at Bonsoir. Has anyone got bingo cards ready? Saggy tits, hairy legs,hairy armpits. I only need moustache and I WILL WIN A PRIZE!!

HerBEggs · 18/04/2011 18:00

Indiestarr the other thing you could do, is tell him some of the facts about porn. Go over to the current porn threads adn read what happens to women in the porn industry, how they are treated and how many men watn to jack off to images of women being abused and then ask your DH if he really thinks that the view of women that is being promoted by that industry and the desperate free speech defence of it by practically all mainstream media, means that feminism isn't needed.

JaneS · 18/04/2011 17:57

Well, if that's how she wants to spend her time that's her business. Threads like this remind me why I'm a feminist and why it matters, which is exactly what the OP asked us to talk about, so I think it is ok.

It also gives me the impression that non-feminists are not very good at constructing valid arguments, and possibly that's lulling us into a false sense of security, but ... I can cope with that. It's a bit like exercise to build up your stamina.

dittany · 18/04/2011 17:42

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Message withdrawn at poster's request.

msrisotto · 18/04/2011 17:35

Oh right fuck that then, i won't bother reading this asinine bollox for someone else's kicks.

HerBEggs · 18/04/2011 17:35

I have this fantasy that she's actually Xenia in disguise.

And both of them are hairy handed truckers. Grin

StayFr0sty · 18/04/2011 17:33

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StewieGriffinsMom · 18/04/2011 17:31

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sethstarkaddersmackerel · 18/04/2011 17:30

I think Bonsoir is having a laugh but she is also trying to distract herself from the cognitive dissonance due to her being a feminist but having a dp in the beauty industry, and she has lived in Paris so long she's got Stockholm Syndrome.
if she faces up to the reality of it all her head might explode.

msrisotto · 18/04/2011 17:29

Yeah, i've seen her posts elsewhere but this is so far removed from sensible discussion, it's ridiculous. [mind boggles]

JaneS · 18/04/2011 17:28

Well, she's not a troll, she posts perfectly genuinely on other threads. She may be trolling here, though, but I think she also believes some of what she's saying.

msrisotto · 18/04/2011 17:22

Sorry but Bonsoir has to be a troll because her arguments are nonsensical, full of contradictions and unreasonable. I wouldn't bother trying.

Indiestarr · 18/04/2011 14:46

I?ve been away from this thread since Saturday lunchtime and I came back today to see whether anything interesting had been added. WTF?! Bonsoir, words fail me! Do you really claim to be a feminist or is this all a big joke?
A couple of choice examples:
?the vast majority of 18 year old girls don't have anything wrong with their breasts, whereas lots of older women have horrid breasts that really need some help? Shock

?if I saw a woman swimming with hairy legs I would feel very sorry for her for loving herself so little and not wanting to make the most of herself.?

And you claim to be saying these things in the name of feminism? Whilst you?ve derailed the original post in some ways, you?ve actually given me ample ammunition to support the argument that feminism is vital. Sadly, your contribution to this thread is a prime example of how it?s often women themselves who undermine the efforts of their sisters to rise above sexist attitudes ? we?re our own worst enemies at times.

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everyspring · 18/04/2011 14:45

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HerBEggs · 18/04/2011 12:49

" making the best of what you've got without referral to any particular external standard"

PMSL. Are you actually that self-deluding Bonsoir or are you winding us all up? You can be very funny sometimes. Grin