Women arrested for wearing burqas in France... what do you think?

For the purpose or is post, I declare apples and oranges to be the same

Atheist though I am, I'm all for living in god's service. Nuns choose to dedicate their lives to spiritual development and good works - for fellow men, not just for god. They do what holy men & women have done, and continue to do, throughout the ages and in all cultures.

That is not in any way analogous to wearing a face-covering in everyday life; Oranica insults real holy people by pretending to be the same.

No, actually, hijab does not, for no purpose, mean "all head coverings".

If I managed to believe in God, I would have been Muslim. And having read the Quran in my teens, it is pretty clear that God expects women to cover their heads. As a result, I would have covered my head.

All to say that there is s very good argument to be made that Muslim women feel obliged to wear the hijab.

However, burqa is not required by Islam. It is an abomination born out of ignorance and overzealousness.

laptopwieldingharpy it is relevant because it illustrates how people respond to someone being dressed differently. i strongly feel that in western europe people are generally extremely tolerant. it is not just a russia/chechnya issue...

objection
chechnya/russia is another problem altogether

stay close to the subject

www.jihadwatch.org/2011/02/chechnya-calls-for-female-state-workers-to-wear-hijab.html

I do not know jihadwatch as an organization (so please do not shoot me, it was the first source i came across on google just now), but this topic was widely discussed in the Russian media in response to physical attacks on females not adhering to strict islam dress-code.

or gang raped and set on fire in France

laptopwieldingharpy very well said

Incidentally, one can be shot down (never mind shouted at) for not wearing what is perceived to be an appropriate attire for females in some countries (eg Chechnya).

niqab and porn are reverse images if the same idea: subjugating and objectifying women

"people who shout at me about my niqab, usually sexist or racist stuff, so far have always been men. I wonder why?"

Maybe because they are pigs (sorry, pigs)? After reading about the French (and taking part in a few threads on MN) I would probably vote for burkha ban myself, but I would never ever ever shout at anyone.

What does porn have to do with this issue?

And are you so naive as to think burqas don't do any harm? Like, all women are covered up from tip of the head to toes, even wearing gloves, are doing so because they really want to?

Why "either-or" sakura? To me porn and burkha wearing is very similar: men telling women what to wear/or not and protecting their disgusting treatment of women with 'freedom of choice'.

I mentioned this programme on the chat thread. Well worth viewing in terms of the choice that is not a choice argument. The burqa does protect the individual woman in some cultures but only from the point of view that it is protecting her from men and the consequences that they dish out for her not being veiled.

I've thought up a new feminist slogan:

"Freedom of speech only exists when it comes to defending porn"

Basically.

Everything else, including clothing, can be policed and attacked according to the whims of each particular patriarchy, even when they're not doing anyone any harm (and porn does a lot of harm)

Want to protect women? Start with porn. That's the root of the rape culture, not a friggin "Darth Vader outfit" Beachwhale

And when you look at it like this you realise that banning the burqua has nothing to do with protecting women at all, and everything to do with controlling them.

Cote, I love your last sentence! Brilliant - let's hope so

I have seen many Saudi women who take off their black tents in the plane, before it even touches down in France and come out of the planes in fluorescent pink mini skirts and the like. It is sad, really,

Maybe now quite a few of the others will be able to tell their husbands/chaperones "Well, I'd like to keep it on, but it is not allowed in France".