Fucking idiots

From the Wikipedia entry for 'fanatic':

"Philosopher George Santayana defines fanaticism as "redoubling your effort when you have forgotten your aim"."

And what should be the primary aim of feminism? To support and encourage women; to pursue equality regardless of gender; to strengthen women together against sexism? I fear this thread and many others I see on MN forget this aim in favour of frantic redoubling of efforts....

And: "According to Winston Churchill, "A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject". By either description the fanatic displays very strict standards and little tolerance for contrary ideas or opinions."

Someone secure in their world-view, whether religious or political, should positively welcome contrary ideas and opposing opinions as a chance for a welcoming and reasoned debate - a chance to show people who disagree how wrong they are and invite them to switch sides! Not this alienation and aggression and swearing and condescension.

Dittany we're not alienated by feminism, we're alienated by some feminists. surely you can see the difference?

I stay away from these boards too, Egg, which is a shame: I pop in now and then out of a genuine desire to educate myself more, but having been brought up by fanaticists who would be angry, aggressive and/or dismissive to other points of view, I steer well clear.

'tis very sad.

Dittany I am very impressed at your ability to excuse aggression when it's for feminism. LoTM was out of order on that thread, feminist or not. And doubly out of order for starting a thread about a thread where MN 'proper feminists' tm can pat each other on the back for being so aggressive in their viewpoints that they alienate people regularly and wonder why.

Er. That's not really the point I'm making! I thought the discussion was about sexism, not about quality of advice despatched by her Madge's constabulary.

could I ask a foolish question, pliz? I have read (most of) said thread, and have never in my life been so baffled.

LOTM (and others) if your daughter - literal or metaphorical - were to call you at midnight and say, "What ho Mum, just walking home alone through an unlit passageway with a bit of a dodgy reputation, see you soooooon!" would you say, "Knock yerself out love, if you get mugged or rape it certainly won't be your fault!" .

I assume (perhaps wrongly) that you would say something along the lines of "Gosh, you sure? There isn't a slightly safer route you could take?"

And by that same token, wouldn't an officer of the law whose sworn duty is to protect the public from harm be doubly obliged to offer the same advice?

Incidentally I asked my (copper) DH about this - a) they routinely tell solitary men late at night in ill-lit areas of dubious reputation to take care and b) I don't think I've ever seen someone so baffled as he was by the idea that saying the same thing to a woman might be the work of a sexist pig.

Would just like to say, that unless my memory is playing tricks, it is only a few weeks since LOTM was posting on this board from the position if someone new to feminism, wanting to find out more.

It does my cycnical old heart no end of good to see her now espousing feminist views on AIBU, regardless of the inevitable kicking she gets. I can rarely be bothered, which is not to my credit.

Good on you LOTM. Don't listen to those who say that maybe they'd listen if you just said it 'nicer'. They're lying.

Points should be discussed on the thread in question IMO

In fact look no further than this thread title

Dittany - look at LoTM's posts on the thread and maybe you'll see why I wonder if she has any reasonable contribution to make.

Maybe LOTM you got the response you did on there because of your tone?

Ive read a few posts from you today [that thread and another] and TBH you come across as very rude.

People can have differing opnions and debate them rudeness usually negates your argument somewhat.

also thread about a thread = bad forum etiquette

I don't want to discuss the other thread on here, I feel it's bad manners, but if you're going to insult the women posting on that thread I feel obliged to stick up for the majority who thought the policemen were pretty much doing their job.

I also agree with a lot of posters who said it was all about the tone they used - if the OP felt they were patronising, then no wonder she felt uncomfortable - I'd feel my space was being invaded.

There is a wooded path which I usually but not always take home - sometimes I make the judgement that it's very late, dark and knowing there have been rare cases of muggings and sexual assaults on the path, I take the longer, main route. It's called dealing with the world we live in. If I took the wood path and passed police who politely recommended that I would be safer on the main road, I'd take it on board ( and rue not moving to a posher area )

I think it's at least as much about muggings as sexual safety, and it's an unavoidable fact that a lone man is more likely to be attacked than a lone woman. LoTM please take sensible points to the thread if indeed you have any.

computer, I think what I find so frustrating is that 'common sense' argument seems incomplete, to me.

Where I live, the quick way home from the train station is down a totally unlit footpath by the canal. I don't like to go that way alone. I've no reason to assume it's unsafe, actually, I just don't fancy it. I'm not about to start walking that way and pretending I'm striking a blow for feminists everywhere. However, if I did walk that way and something did happen, it would not be my fault. It would not be because I wasn't 'careful'. Because every day I do things that aren't very careful, but I have never yet managed to punch myself in the face and steal my own handbag, or to rape myself.

LoTM you're not covering yourself in glory by a) being aggressive on that thread and insulting and abusing other posters, and b) running over here to gain support.

There are plenty of interesting and valid viewpoints on the thread, you chose to insult the majority and to be fair forcing the OP to be about something it's not!

I'm a feminist and it would be lovely if you could make your points on there without the abuse. Hardly anyone made anti-feminist points and the tiny minority that did, didn't invite the name-calling and rudeness you came on to the thread with.

Wow, I missed that.

I think I need to stop posting on there too, it's getting me cross.

Are you ok? I think I'd be quite shaky after that thread.