Porn - I use it and feel bad - help convince me porn is wrong

Not sure if that proves anything prosperina either way, although it's some indication of that it isn't all what the more extreme posters have been arguing it is

I've namechanged and done the google experiment. DON'T READ IF YOU ARE EASILY OFFENDED

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I went and saw this month's most popular porn videos on pornhub (as I understand one of the most popular websites) and anyone can check to see if they wish.

The top ten videos are

1. Kendra Wilkinson exposed sex tape
2. Teenagers in love
3. This amateur can outfuck any pornstar
4. Arabella anderson in Miami
5. Nella - incredible orgasm
6. Squeeze those melons
7. Kagner - big boob addicts
8. Amis does battle with honky kong
9. Naomi crazy anal

Make of that what you will

Absolutely gobsmacked that you could read this thread and come to the conclusion that the real issue is women stereotyping men. Or Dittany being a bit holdy-backy with her ladylike Ps and Qs.

Wow. Just wow.

That's a real actual person behind '18 and abused'

Total arseholery.

another depressing thread, I need to go and get kids' tea in a min so if anyone wants to wander over there....

I would also like to add to seth's excellent post of Mon 18-Apr-11 13:53:26.

Another problem with the argument that not all porn appears violent/abusive/coerced is the 'supply and demand' dynamic of porn production. Please excuse some of the misogynistic language I am going to use to describe this - I am going to be talking about women as products but it is the clearest way to talk about how porn works. The terms in inverted commas are porn producers' language.

When a woman starts doing porn she is new to the scene, she's 'fresh meat', she hasn't been 'used up' yet, she is probably very young. She probably also has pretty clear ideas about what she doesn't want to do (DP, anal, gang bang, choking, ATM, etc.). So, women like this do the 'soft' stuff -they do 'girl on girl' with no violence/abuse, etc. They will probably do some '1 man/1 girl' stuff - it probably looks entirely consensual. Except of course, she's getting paid and hearing promises of how she's got start quality and isn't like all the other girls and she could make really big money.

This woman will not be getting paid very much though - there is more money in porn in the extreme stuff. So her pimp/agent will push her to do harder stuff. The woman might hold out and keep doing 'soft porn'. Unless she becomes a 'star' like Jenna Jameson, after a while, the phone will stop ringing for her to do soft stuff - she isn't a new set of orifices face any-more and there will be other women competing with her who are willing to do harder acts. So, the pimp/agent and the woman up the stakes, and she starts doing '2 man/1 girl' (notice how they never talk about 'women' in porn). Hell, she might even do a little anal. And so on and so on. 6 months later, the only way to make money is to do the full 'repertoire' because by now our woman is getting a bit 'used looking' and she is also getting desensitised to porn sets. She is probably drinking too much and using drugs too. She is losing self esteem after being 'used' by the porn hounds and being called a 'cum gobbling slut' day in day out. She has probably been raped and threatened a few times by now (over and above the rape and verbal abuse that happens in the films) and she almost certainly has a STD. She may be doing some stripping or turning some 'tricks' to make a little extra money. And so on and so on. Another 6 months later, if the woman lasts that long, she may be one of the women doing big gang bangs and all the other vile stuff.

This is an on-going process with new women starting every day to fill the demand for wank fodder and to make money for the porn merchants.

There is of course also the darker side of porn which 'uses' trafficked women/women picked up on the streets, etc which makes the above scenario look like 'a walk in the park' in porn producers terms.

Jenny60;

I was asked a question, I gave an honest answer - if you think someone who views mainstream porn, ( the sort of stuff that's been around for years ) - is a sadistic woman hater then there's really not a lot more we can say. so you're right - best end it here.

I just can't bring myself to do the google experiment and admire those who did. I can't t get Felicity out of my head a week on so I don't think I could handle it.

Carm: you are in massive denail and if you think 'because I like it' is enough of a reason to continue to support this abusive industry, then I really have nothing more to say to you.

Indie: as you've been given pause for thought by this board, I'd like you to think about why, in the midst of a discussion about the abuse and degradation of women, of drug abuse, rape and so on, your contribution is to remind us that not all men are like that, don't be so mean to us etc... That's what stood out for you? What does that say about you? Christ almghty.

@ HHLimbo

Yes of course that is a reasonable assumption to make.
I don't think the posts I have made today are helpful and as I am always going to be tempted to post I will un-bookmark this forum and try and keep my nose out in future. Thanks for all the enlightened discussion though. Some posts really did give me pause for thought.

Fine, we'll leave it - your terms ('mentally the same'? I assume you mean that you believe men and women have innate differences (residing in their brain?), leading women to be more 'nurturing' or some such) are so loosely defined, it would be impossible to discuss anyway I suspect.

So easy for some to make agressive personal attacks, yet so difficult to make a sincere personal apology?? Very interesting, why is that I wonder?

Perhaps this is the root of the problem with people like the OP.

@ HHlimbo

Puts on Father Hackett voice.
Im soooooooo soooooo sorrrrrrrry. :)

@ Charitygirl. If I have to believe that men and women are mentally the same then I will never be a feminist. Mentally equal yes, the same no. I do strongly believe that women are as entitled to a fulfilling life as men. Anyway I am taking a very worthwhile discussion off-topic here. Sorry.

Apologise to Dittany please, and properly.

just seen HHlimbo's post. Yes I did apologise and no I don't find it difficult to apologise to women (ask my wife). Have you already forgotten I'm whiny:)

Why not a feminist? What do you think feminists want that you don't?

Are you going to assess all the posts/posters in turn inde?

This sort of thing gets right up my feminist nose when done on the feminist board by a person of privilege.

Good post charitygirl. It's not the first time I have been give pause to think about something in this forum although I'm not a feminist. Thanks for explaining it to me.

Hear hear Beachcomber.

Eggy it always has a 'sort of' ambiguity. Sort of apologising and sort of not.

Its funny how internet anonymity makes it so easy to attack someone, but some still find it so difficult to apologise.

Inde - unfortunately your post did come over as the typical 'waaah, why are you saying ALL men are sexist - I'm not' special pleading that is all over feminist discussion boards.

We have the right to talk about what we perceive men do as a group to women as a group, without having to always caveat it with 'some men'...

Feel free to explain what your post added other than 'not all men enjoy porn'. We already knew that.

Would also like to say that dittany is not aggressive. She is honest and cuts through the bullshit.

I think what is meant a lot of the time by aggressive is 'not lady like' and 'saying things that might make me have to question the status quo and examine uncomfortable facts'.

Dittany is very perceptive with picking up on a dynamic, as said by Eggyfucker and I am another one who appreciates when she does so.

Inde, man, shame on you. You stumbled into the thread, misread a post, talked some bullshit and personally attacked the poster on the basis of your own prejudice and called someone a 'man hater' on the feminist forum. Oh dear oh dear oh dear. And you still haven't apologised properly yet!

Anyhoo, strange as it might seem, most of us aren't interested in your assessment of dittany - we are trying to have an interesting feminist discussion in case you hadn't noticed. Sheesh.

HH, I think inde did apologise again (kind of)

Great posts Dittany (always!) and Charitygirl

^Dittany is SO not agressive. She is extremely forthright, but given the fact that she is personally attacked on virtually every single thread (as you did), she is very restrained, and doggedly plays the ball, and not the (wo)man. Given the vitriol she attracts, I think it is amazing that she doesn't resort to personal insults.

Perhaps by 'aggressive' you mean 'makes what I posted about how I am so great and non-sexist look irrelevant, complacent and whiney'?^

This is great - should be posted on vitually every single thread

I notice inde still hasnt apologised and I wonder why not? Does he find it difficult to apologise to women? He was very rude and agressive, and an apology is certainly in order.

inde, x posted

that was not directed at you personally

just with people in general who don't appreciate it when their liking for the language and visuals of misogynistic porn is mirrored back at them