Porn - I use it and feel bad - help convince me porn is wrong

Second last post. Although...

A while ago someone linked to an amazing blog piece about rape and how women are basically conditioned to co-operate and consent. It demonstrated how difficult it is for women to actually say 'no' and why the absence of a 'no' isn't the same as consent.

I thought I'd saved it but I can't find it, does anyone have it handy? I think it might be helpful here. It certainly opened my eyes.

There are more links and book recommendations in this section of MN than in almost any other (except S&B probably). And he got links in the first responses. All he had to do was say thanks and toddle off to the appropriate place.

And what dittany said in her last post.

And like I said - there's plenty of male homosexual porn with similar sexual procedures. Not all pornography relates to women.

All he had to do was browse the feminist section for a while and he would find plenty of information. Afterall if someone had some good or useful information they would have already posted it on here. the same people hs is asking are the same people who have posted all the other info.
He didn't need to post his op at all.

I will hold my hands up and say I wouldn't have a clue how to help him tbh. I clicked on the thread out of interest as I realised it wouldn't be a question I'd know how to answer myself, even though I understand the basics of why it is wrong.

In other areas of MN I have learned a lot, here I find it very agressive.

I agree completely though with what you say re perhaps getting confronted with the reality of people's reactions might be a help to the OP.

With regards to opressors/being oppressed - doesn't having the abilty to educate/having a deeper level of understanding about something put you slightly in a position of power?

If the woman is consenting to that sexual act and is getting paid for it, I think it's up to her how she lives her life.

See Caz10, I used to think like that too.

I now realise that you cannot do it for other people and they should not expect you to.

More importantly, the fact that they think it is alright to ask you, as a member of the group being damaged by an activity, to do the work for them, means that you cannot help them. (They don't understand,yet, that all of the people in your group are human.)

We are doing the OP a much better favour by explaining that he needs to do the work himself. We are also being true to ourselves.

It isn't difficult to see why porn is wrong. What is difficult (for some people) is for them to act on the fact that they know porn is wrong. I can't do that for anyone else, they need to do it themselves.

Basically the OP is asking feminist women to help him keep his dick in his pants rather than masturbate to women being abused. Excuse me if I pass.

I know our reaction probably looks harsh and not very helpful but, christ, only in the patriarchy would the oppressed be blamed for not helping the oppressor to stop some of his oppressing ways.

The porn industry ( 99% of it anyway ) is completely legal and involves consenting adults - male and female. 99% of 'porn users' are normal people with healthy relationships who just like 10 minutes of escapism now and then.

He got his information right at the start of the thread. He could have gone and absorbed that instead he turned on those who were offended by his posting here and then had the gall to claim he was a feminist.
I'm still learning but even I can see how bad it is.
It's like asking a child to explain to a paedophile what they are doing is wrong.

Well the way I see it, you can help and/or educate people, or you can tell them they're ignorant bastards and let them get on with it.

I don't mean re porn in particular, I just mean in general.

I don't think anyone is being asked to be kind particularly, and especially it is not the case that we are not supposed to mind. You can mind a LOT, and offer plain speaking advice without being kind. Just helpful.

MoreCrack - The Op was given links and reading suggestions. Is that not educational enough for you?

If he wants to change, he will go away and do some reading, perhaps think about this thread or have a browse around the rest of the topic and start to think about how what he now knows will change his behaviour and ultimately ACT to change his behaviour.

He will also be thinking about WHY he got the response he got on this thread and perhaps think more deeply about why women feel this strongly about porn. I really hope he does because until then his notion of him being a 'decent' man is deeply flawed.

What he won't do is keep posting, asking, but why oh why are women considered to be human 'enough' not to be degraded or abused in this way? Only a real considered empathy for women as humans is going to allow him to make that link and change - if you wouldn't want your daughter, sister, mum, niece abused or degraded in that way even if they were being paid for it (somehow exchange of money seems to trump decency for even the most 'decent' of men) then you start to make the connection and hopefully porn viewed from that perspective just isn't so appealing.

I don't get most of this thread. I posted a link to a site where the OP can read exactly what he is asking us to provide. Why should women do that work for him when it is already available to him, written by men who have been where he is and have seen a different way to be? That is exactly the way AA works.

So, what's the problem? Why are women getting a hard time? And MCTH, if you could read the threads on here and stop using porn, why is it different for the OP?

What would 'benefit' me, as a woman and human being, is for men to stop their violence against women. Porn is violence against women.

What would also 'benefit' me, is for men to refrain from patronising me from their perspective of male privilege about an issue which concerns the oppression and abuse of my sex.

"Women do it too" is for those who are on level minus 10 of feminist analysis. I thought you had things better figured out than that David.

David consuming porn is misogynistic be it done by a woman or by a man.

Thank you but I'm not sure I have 'benefited' much from reading your article. I have read a great deal about porn and reflected for the last 20 years of my life as an adult woman living in a sexually violent patriarchy.

OK dittany this is addressed to you personally - read the link. Then tell us what you think