Porn - I use it and feel bad - help convince me porn is wrong

Oh wow That's really informative and interesting, TY - I've never thought too deeply about pornography ( & I can't honestly say I've never used it ) - maybe I've deliberately defended it because I've taken part in it ( by consuming it ) my view has always been it's ok as long as it is kept away from children - I would campaign to have it removed from Tesco's etc . But I still can't get my head around the harm principle - If Pornography was so damaging to women why hasn't it been banned? The 'acceptable' face of porn, ie; the lads mags you get in supermarkets are (imo) as bad as hardcore pornography because it's right there in our faces above the Radio Times - I hate that.

Prolesworth - thank you for the link

( Carminaburana here with my Easter name that has nothing to do with Easter )

I think it's worse that GPU came onto MN to talk to women about his sex life.

Yuck.

And either you are addicted to porn in which case go and get help from the right and proper place ; we are not a free resource called youcanchaponthedooratanytimeanddemandwestopwhatwearedoinginordertohelpyoustopoppressingus.com

Or you are not addicted, in which case educate yourself, let go of a tiny but of your unearned male privilege, develop a bit of humanity and stop wanking to the subhuman treatment of real women.

Why do you want to stop using porn, GuiltyPornUser? What is it that led to you feeling guilty about it?

And what did you want us to say that would help convince you to stop using it?

Why haven't you told your wife that you are using it? I presume you don't want her to know. If you think that it's not damaging your relationship, why are you hiding it from her? If you think she would object, have you considered asking her why she thinks you shouldn't use it?

All genuine questions, by the way.

The problem with the alcohol analogy is that it sounds, to a feminist, as though you are comparing women to things.

I think we are all quite capable of understanding that alcoholism affects other people thank you very much. I don't believe anybody here is stupid enough to think otherwise .

You may well be a decent guy - but you use porn.

Porn = misogyny ergo porn user = misogynist

The most effective way to stop consuming porn is to face that truth.

(The 'decent guy'/Nice Guy/not my Nigel/ defence is used a lot to justify acts of misogyny - to a feminist it is about as clichéd as 'a dog ate my homework'.)

sorry 'any better' not and.

If you had daughters you wouldn't want them involved says it all. I loathe the double standard-you DDs would be precious but it is quite OK to get off on some poor unloved DD who has had a bad start in life because they don't deserve and better and they aren't precious-the attitude stinks.

I agree, vezzie. "Hmm, I think I'm using porn too much and should probably try and stop. Where shall I ask? Oh, what about those lovely ladies on the Mumsnet forum that I've read about in the paper. Look, they've even got a feminist section where a large, argumentative porn thread is going on and lots of them seem not to like porn or porn users. Perfect!"

Sorry to hijack the thread, maybe should have posted this on the other thread.

I have just watched that documentary with Felicity. I actually felt sick, repulsed and even tense and nervous sitting in my own home even just watching it, I can't imagine how she must have felt there. I also felt more than anger, so angry at those men I cannot even describe!

Does this actually happen???? I CANNOT actually believe that a person could actually act like these guys. The manipulation that Max Hardcore guy was trying!

I'm actually waiting for someone to come and tell me it's fictional, made-up!

Totally shocked, and I am not by any means naive in fact I am the complete opposite (and I mean that seriously) , but this has shocked me beyond belief.

If this is indeed what happens behind the scenes then I will never watch any porn (only watched it a couple of times nonchalantly in company in the past) and will never be happy with any partner of mine or my son doing that.

{Shocked and horrifed} sorry for thread hi-jack - I went looking through the other thread to see which documentary you were talking about.

I can neither confirm nor deny whether my n is sufficent to achieve statistical significance.

I am very uncomfortable about why GuiltyPornUser has chosen this particular space to unburden himself. It seems potentially a little pervy in itself. I can't pretend I do know his motivations - this is only guesswork - but why does he want the women here scolding him and discussing his nasty secret habits when he could read up what he needs to know and think about in private, or discuss it with some of the anti-porn men on some of the sites that have been suggested to him?

Mindboggling indeed

OP Keep reading and keep browsing this section. Think of it as a journey. Once you've realised (2) you start to notice more insidious translations of porn into mainstream culture. And once you start to notice that, you start to notice other things: recent posts in AIBU have been subjects like a woman asking a dental surgery to turn off a Lady Gaga video because she had a young (I think pre-school) daughter and teenage son with her - at first her son was embarrassed (and the OP was rounded on by people demanding their civil liberties to be allowed to watch Lady Gaga videos in public) but even her teenage son came to the OP later to say he could see why his younger sister shouldn't be exposed to that; or why police officers would stop a lone woman at night and tell her to 'be careful' without any specific advice as to how, so the assumption for some has been that as a lone woman out at night she has to be careful. But really, you only have to read the news. TBH the scale and relentlessness of violence against women because they are women depresses me so much I find it hard to read the news nowadays.

With regards to (1) society is already doing it for you. As per Lady Gaga video example above, or another thread where many people thought the OP was out of order for asking a man in a playground waiting to collect his children not to salivate over Page 3 while he waited (apparently the right to view Page 3, essentially soft porn, wherever, whenever, is a civil liberty, even if in the school playground) - you may think you, personally, are not objectifying women, but I would very much imagine you are passively consuming and subscribing to a lot of the views that do, even if you think you treat women as equals in RL. I've sat opposite blokes on tube trains looking at page 3 and then looking at me. It's not comfortable. Imagine the council have licensed a lapdancing club to open two doors down from you. Do you want it in your back yard? If not, why not? It all comes back to empathy. Can you understand that a child or vulnerable young adult, sexually abused, would equate their experience as their 'worth' and continue to replay attaining that 'worth' or sexual attention through getting involved in porn even if it involves physical, mental and verbal abuse, as well as sexual, in a self-fulfilling prophecy of doom? Or to prove to themselves they are undamaged and empowered by entering a world where they will be abused again and again because well, they took it once, so they can take it again, and it's ok this time because they're being paid right?

With regards to (3) you may take longer to realise this. But as Dittany has pointed out, she doesn't know. What do you think your wife would think of the porn sites you visit? How do you think you would feel laying next to her in bed each night if you knew she viewed vulnerable people being degraded and raped as masturbatory material? I would lay good money on the fact that at some point you have wanked to something billed as 'barely legal' even if the website disclaimer's small print (if you bothered to check pre-wank) stated all models were of the legal age of consent (this is not an accusation of paedophilia towards you AT ALL - it is a comment on the prevalence of this kind of porn, and if you believe in supply and demand, well, for someone to invest money in this kind of genre of porn you can bet there's demand). If you haven't got children, how would you feel about having children with someone who thinks 16 - 18 year olds are fair game for sexual exploitation?

You've got a lot of questions you need to answer for yourself if you are genuine about wanting to be 'decent'. But the more you read and reflect the better chance you have of getting there.

And please let go of the alcohol analogy. It doesn't help you take responsibility.

Carmina, mindbogglingly, I believe the sexual performance/relations of men who consume porn has been studied. I can't be arsed to look it up, I'm afraid, but the upshot was that they were shit in bed.

I can't be arsed because I care much more about the women who are harmed by porn than I do about the porn consuming men who were studied, or men like them.

I'm not sure how you'd know porn users are often shit at sex, unless you have an impressive lover list.

7. It leads you to compare the consumption of people to the consumption of things.

(Stop with the fucking offensive alcoholism analogy already - women are not bottles of beer.)

Wish I'd not added my No 4 now. Not because it's not true, but because I dropped my guard and started spoonfeeding.

I am sure there are lists on antipornmen and the like.

6. Chances are you are wanking to a victim of sexual abuse being sexually abused.

Let's not mince our words.

1. if you have daughters and they EVER find out, you risk them losing respect for you forever and wrecking your relationship.

(see recent thread about how old people were when they first saw porn - quite a few people there said they found their dad's and it damaged their relationship with him forever)

4. Porn users are often shit at sex as well.