Porn - I use it and feel bad - help convince me porn is wrong

TheyKnow

I didn't know that about her. However, the point is someone like Jenna Jameson is "presented" as a happy confident woman, which I agree may mask the reality.

Etymologically, pornography denotes; 'the depiction of prostitutes'.

Which is awful when put with the world 'child'.

Dorothea A look at Wikipedia's entry on Jenna Jameson says this:

"Jameson writes in her autobiography that in October 1990, when she was 16 years old and while the family was living on a cattle ranch in Fromberg, Montana, she was beaten with rocks and gang raped by four boys after a football game at Fromberg High School.[17] The incident began after she attempted to hitchhike home, and that she entered the car of the four boys while believing that she would be driven to her home.[17] She reported being raped a second time while still 16, by "Preacher," her boyfriend Jack's biker uncle.[17] Preacher has denied the rape ever occurred.[19] Rather than tell her father, she left home and moved in with Jack in her first serious relationship.[5][20]"

Not saying that she's not a happy confident woman, but I do wonder if there isn't a female porn star who hasn't been raped/sexually abused before they commence their career?

I agree that men do not like to think they are watching the abuse and rape of women when watching pornography - but I guess they also think two cocks in their own anus would be a pretty neat and painless fit? And if they do think that would be painful for them, why would it not be painful for the woman on screen? Because she's paid for it? Because she's not worth their concern because she's just not human enough? Because she's a dirty whore and deserves it?

That's another reason why I hate the term child pornography. It is not another porn genre ffs to be added to the ever-growing menu of degradation abuse and humiliation filmed for (let's face it) majority male pleasure! It is the rape and sexual abuse of children filmed for the pleasure of sick scum. I wish there was another term for pornography that actually captured anything of its real nature.

There's a thread about it here.

Watch with caution it is distressing. Definitely make sure that there are no children around.

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1186736-2001-channel-4-documentary-on-porn

flip

I don't think anyone thinks we're required to convince the OP. However, I'm interested in the thrust of your post

You say there's a lot of men (I imagine the majority of men with an internet connection but I don't have stats) who watch porn from time to time. If you asked them "do you think it's ok for women to be abused for your enjoyment", I would guess most would say no. However, it's not always superficially obvious that the women are being abused in porn - many of the anecdotes we read appear after people have left the industry. Many of the girls (I'm aware of Jenna Jameson) are presented as happy confident women.

I'm not saying that they're not being abused, I'm just saying it's not obvious that's the case. The work of people like Dines is still quite obscure and is far outweighed by the thousands of websites that present porn in a positive light.

(disclaimer: I'm not absolving men of the blame here, but quite often the viewers are very much suckers who enticed to part with money)

"I find this threads deeply misogynistic and started by deeply narcissistic men who assume we are going to start cheering them on because they acknowledge women might be human too."

Thank you SGM, for neatly summarising why I find this this thread so disquieting.

Dorothy, I understand where you are coming from. But why are we required to convince the OP that porn is bad and he shouldn't be using it?

While we're on the subject, I know that a lot of men who consider themselves to be nice, thoughtful types (etc) also use porn. Then you dig around a bit and find they aren't actually that nice, because they don't think there's anything wrong with women being abused for their enjoyment.

Porn is all very empowering and a valid career choice (justification) but of course the attitude changes if it involves their mum/sister/friend/girlfriend. I remember reading an article about a student who had become involved in porn, for economic reasons. Her boyfriend's pal spotted her in a film, told the boyfriend, who dumped her.

It's a bit Animal Farm..some women are more equal than others. Or, some women are fit to wanked over but don't deserve to be treated as full human beings.

Typing "why porn is bad" into Google returns 25,700 web pages.

So there is plenty of information out there.

I can't speak for what he expected, I just think there's a balance

One one side there's "poor you", on the other there's "you bastard, you hate women", I think a better approach is to educate about the harsh realities of porn, otherwise, there's a danger we come across as cliched men haters.

OP, I can recommend Gloria Dines's work

I got the impression the OP was expecting congratulations and 'poor you, aren't you good for being so sensitive and thoughtful' type reactions.

Why he thought he would get this here is beyond me, Surely a cursory read through of threads in the feminist topic would indicate the strength of 'anti' feeling around this subject.

I agree that the women who appear in porn are dehumanised by the consumer, so that they can use it without feeling guilty about someone else being exploited for their enjoyment.

ok, I'm just maybe a different type of feminist - I really dislike porn, but I'm sympathetic to an extent to the men who use it, as I'm aware of its draw on weak men. It's far far more accessible than it was 10 years ago, and it's designed to entice men.

I think the OP was respectful and was at least trying to see the error of his ways.

He didn't ask a question - he asked us to convince him that using porn is wrong.

This is the feminist section, of course he was going to get the reaction he did.

This has been covered already upthread.

Responding to David51's link to the Guardian article about women addicted to porn:

There are some women who don't like themselves for consuming porn because, like the Guardian article mentions, those women say their "need" for porn wastes too much of their valuable time. Female consumers of porn are human too, but that doesn't make them right.

Along with male consumers of porn, such female porn consumers selfishly tend to think the pros and cons of porn are about themselves, but not about the abused women and others they are masturbating to. Too much of the porn debate is focused on the feelings and wishes of the consumer. That is wrong.

I'm not buying this entitlement thing either, he asked a question - is that now entitlement? (Is this a man-free zone, is that the problem?) People didn't have to answer, he wasn't rude - I'm just not getting at all why he got such a hard time from some members

But correct me if I'm wrong, it wasn't a question about relationships per se (although it was a component, clearly in his relationship with his wife), it was a question about the political analysis of porn.

I don't know if it is disturbing or just a really good example of male entitlement.

"Righto feminists saying as you are the ones who are concerned with men treating women humanely, how about you explain to me how to get in touch with my humane side. I misplace it when I fancy a wank you see. Now I know you've got other things to do like discuss your state of oppression (by people like me) in a space created for that very purpose, but I'm here now and I'm a man, so I expect you to cater to my needs and wants and ignore yours. And you better be nice to me while your doing it or I'll go in the huff and won't become an anti-porn ally."

Are we that fragile that we are disturbed by the idea that a man watches porn, and wishes to discuss it. I've been lurking, and given this is a parenting website, in which forum on this site should pornography be discussed, given this is where most of the porn threads are?

I find it quite disturbing that someone would come into this section and ask for help with their porn use, particularly in light of the recent MH thread (lurked but didn't post). Surely, when posting something so very personal you would read around, do a bit of research and choose an appropriate topic?

Hello OP.

I admit that I am glad (assuming you are genuine) that you appear to be seriously questioning your behvaviour.
I also agree with Beachcomber and others that, "if you think of women as human beings you cannot consume porn" and that does make me highly reluctant to engage with you. That you view some women, who you know and deal with everyday, as of equal worth - but not those anonymous ones on the websites doesn't count. I don't think you need convining that using porn is wrong - you seem to know it is wrong.
You have been given some links to some groups which, I really hope, can be of more help to you.

I think he's been very polite and restrained for someone who's admitted to a fairly common problem (how many million men in the UK watch porn?), and asked for help, and in return had implications of being a rapist thrown back at him.