Porn - I use it and feel bad - help convince me porn is wrong

why is it that when it comes to porn, people are so ready to point to the exceptional earners like Jenna Jameson and talk as if they are typical when they so obviously aren't? I mean, no-one thinks all computer nerds earn as much as Bill Gates or all children's authors make as much money as J.K. Rowling, do they?!

Inmydreamimawesternhero do you hold racist views as well as sexist ones?

I'm only asking because the porn industry, you seem so enthusiastic about, is rife with racism and racist stereotypes so it seems like a given.

Inmydream, I am blown away by your total lack of empathy. Did you watch the documentary about Felicity? Did you see her being forced into sexual acts she didn't wish to partake in? Did you register that she was being raped and assaulted? Can you even imagine what would have happened to her if the documentary crew hadn't been there?

Would you go to LA to be a porn star and sign Richard up as your agent? Would you let your daughter do that?

How can you watch that film and come away not even thinking that at the very least the industry needs serious regulation?

I find it quite chilling that you can so easily write off the fact that some women will always be harmed and that the majority of porn is just "harmless escapism".

Inmydream I actually can't believe that you've read the posts here and come to that conclusion. Maybe you didn't understand much of it, maybe you didn't want to. But please don't portray your opinion as some kind of objective weighing of the evidence on this thread when it's clearly not. There's overwhelming evidence here of the harm pornography does to us.

RL; - There will be some women who are harmed - just like there will be some men harmed. There are people being 'harmed' all over the world by all sorts of things - it's not a perfect world and never will be.
I could make a documentary today about women in porn who have done very well thank you - like any report, it depends where you're coming from.
Pretty much everyone has access to the likes of Katie Price. She has made her fortune out of being very pretty and selling her body. Is she a success?
My 11 year old son knows who KP is - he doesn't have a clue what pornography is - this is my point - there is an 'acceptable' side to the sex industry that is just as ( potentially ) damaging to impressionable people.

I've seen some music videos on TV that could be considered pornography.
You can't stop people selling sex - it's everywhere.

Inmydreams,

I'm not sure how you conclude that when you hear the anecdotes of women harmed in the industry. Could you elaborate?

I wanted to make a point about the positive images that are presented of porn. Let's ignore the issue of the man lying to his wife. I don't know what he's watching, but let's assume he's not fairly mainstream porn.

He sees videos of happy girls enjoying consensual sex, and he's unlikely to have heard of Jensen and Dines before he came here, like 99% of men.

I think the key is in educating these men about the reality of porn, rather than telling them they're potential rapists. Just like we don't tell people who shop in Primark they're child abusers.

I've read all the links ( and have checked out some porn sites as advised )

Final opinion is that the majority of pornography is absolutely fine and not harming women. 99% of What You see in porn films is completely legal and harmless entertainment/escapism. If I wanted to have group sex tonight with 3 men I could and I wouldn't be breaking any laws, if I wanted to film that and show it to the world I could. Enjoying different types of Sex is not illegal, it's a normal part of the human condition. If I want to get off watching pornography that's up to me, I'm not a threat to anyone and do not consider all women in porn ' victims' - most of them are laughing all the way to the bank.

Most male users of Pornography are normal/ordinary men and women , they are not women haters and are never going to harm anyone purely because of pornography ( I know porn has been linked to some crimes but I'm pretty sure those crimes would have taken place anyway ) to suggest all men ( and women ) who use porn are depraved inadequates is crazy.

Plus You will never be able to ban it because there's too many variations of it, do you just ban the hardcore stuff ( & H/C means different things to different people ) or do you ban everything including Jordan? ( she's doing more damage to women than the whole porn industry put together imo )

so, if you're a consenting adult and want to watch porn (or even be part of the industry) go right ahead. I like it sometimes.

That video is so sad, that poor young woman.

The smiling thing also makes me think of this which I posted already on another thread but it seems appropriate here too.

""Finally, the harm is invisible because of the smile, because women are made to smile, women aren't just made to do the sex acts. We are made to smile while we do them."

"I live in a country where if you film any act of humiliation or torture, and if the victim is a woman, the film is both entertainment and it is protected speech. Now that tells me something about what it means to be a woman citizen in this country, and the meaning of being second class."

www.nostatusquo.com/ACLU/dworkin/WarZoneChaptIVF1.html

Yes, TKE - this which was linked from the other porn thread backs up that point about the "happy and confident" appearance. One suspects "Bella Donna" is doing putting on the cheeriness to kid herself as much as the interviewer (and when questioned about the constant smiling, she breaks down).

Dorothea Your point about the women being presented as happy and confident is very true. I read a great article by Robert Jensen on the weekend (led there courtesy of the links on this thread - so while I have been kicking myself for giving the OP any of my time - I actually got a lot out of this thread even if he didn't...pfffft) where he and Gail Dines interviewed Australian porn actresses at some Sex Expo in LA who were supposed to be fulfilling the au naturel/girl next door niche. They weren't allowed back to interview after the first day because their questions were too difficult and the porn site's owner- girls had decided they didn't want to answer the questions. The whole account highlights how much effort goes into maintaining that happy confident image...but how quickly it fades....was then reading about Linda Boreman (aka Linda Lovelace) and her testimony that she was forced to film Deep Throat with gun threats from her abusing 'husband'. There are lots of reports of her being heavily into drugs for the years she was involved in porn. It does seem that the porn profiteers know how to target and draw in vulnerable women with troubled pasts. And yet as Dittany has pointed out all we get fed is the Belle De Jour myth. One Belle can wipe out any number of other women's horrifying experience of exploitation and abuse it appears.

Chap comes on, admits to lying to his wife, and using porn that degrades women, but still thinks he's a decent chap. Because everyone does it, don't they?

If you just stop to think about that logic - it's so barking and twisted

How about if I came on here and said that I regularly lie to my husband? And/or if I came on here and said that I indulged in something potentially damaging, say recreational drug use?

You'd tell me in no uncertain terms what an idiot I was. Dittany did well here. If someone acts like a twat, then they need to be told in no uncertain terms. S'what MN's good at.

ha ha, HerBex, I was thinking along those lines too. I am now imagining the OP as a post-Catholic thrill seeker (probably educated by the Christian Brothers or a similarly violent order) who enjoys being told off in public by women he imagines as severe but sexy nuns to add spice to his porn use.

Dorothea - I just want to take issue with the assumption that most men with an internet connection use porn. I don't have any statistics either but I get very annoyed when porn users try to universalise their nasty habit. In my experience lots of men don't use porn. I know some do - or many do - but let us be clear that it is pandering to a vested interest to make out that it is numerically irrelevantly few who don't, leading to an implication that it is deviant not to.

LOL ImmaculadaConcepcion, what with your name and all those implications of catholic guilt, flagellation etc. I now have a vision of the OP as a married Father Ted...

I have a suspicion the reason the OP posted his thread in the Feminism section of MN is because he knew he would get a pasting here.

They say confession is good for the soul? Well, the OP isn't up to confessing to his wife about his use of porn because of his concern for his marriage. The next best thing is to throw himself to the lionesses, so to speak, so he could get some verbal flagellation in the hope that it would help him begin to atone for his port-watching misdeeds.

He needed to work through his guilt, I'm guessing - he wanted to be punished.
Although that's not to discount the narcissm etc. mentioned above - if anything, it reinforces that idea.

Sorry about all the mixed metaphors.

Personally I've found it a highly instructive thread. Although I think the best way to deal with unwanted posters is to totally ignore them, I'm glad you didn't because I've certainly learned a great deal by reading what you've all had to say.

Indeed

Hence why I posted my questions to the OP. I wanted him to do some work and explore his own feelings rather than having all the work done for him. I didn't really get a response though.

this boils down to

'ok women, convince me for the billionth time that you are human'

nah you're all right chief, i have other things i can be getting on with

hey OP why don't you convince us that you're not a misogynist crunt - i know you say you're not, and i really, y'know want to believe you, but do you think you can spare the shitloads of energy attempting to convince me otherwise?

i must warn you it is v likely to be futile as i intend to carry on believing you are said misogynist crunt anyway

but please don't let that stop you

While I'm here, I'm another one who utterly disagrees with David51's analysis of dittany. Like many other posters, I may not always agree with her but - dittany, hello, I'm not going to talk about you - I've found a fair amount of give and take in arguments and you (unlike some others) will apologise/take back remarks if someone counter-argues convincingly. Plus you like Adam Ant so you're fine by me :)

Personally, I get my rocks off to watching videos of men being booted in the balls. I know there are all these arguments about some apparent abuses involved in the nut-kicking industry, and how not all the men enjoy it. But since they are being paid for it - or at least I haven't bothered to find out, and have chosen to assume this is the case - and they are smiling through the grimace of agony, I have never considered this a problem in the past.

All you men out there - convince me that there is something amiss with my endless appetite for footage of real live men being clouted roundly in the gonads.

It is watchable computermouse - it was aired on channel 4 after all.

I didn't want to just link to it without a bit of warning though.

"I don't think anyone thinks we're required to convince the OP"

No, it's not compulsory to respond Dorothea, but OP is asking us to convince him that porn use is wrong. If he's that way minded why does he need a bunch of us to convince him - why not just do the research? Plenty of people taking the post at face value have posted links.

I agree with that there's a 'happy hooker' view of porn, that women do it cos they enjoy it; of course there is a big 'pro porn' lobby out there as you say and of course its a great way to make money and so forth.

But then ask them would they like someone they know/care about to be involved..the answer is an emphatic no.