Porn - I use it and feel bad - help convince me porn is wrong

that makes absolutely no sense Inmydreams. Why do you imagine attractive women can't be victimised?

You're misunderstanding what I'm saying -
If I was a female happily employed in the porn industry I'd be a bit pissed off by the feminist view that I'm only there because I'm a victim. Not all women in pornography are victims in need of saving, only there because they have no choice. Fgs if the porn industry was full of 'victims' they'd be more variation in looks. You will never see a fat ugly female on the cover of FHM - because men don't want to look at them - that's what I'm saying.

I'm a 26 year old man. I used porn as a teenager, but then one day I just kind of looked at a porno and thought:

"Why is she doing that? Who is she? What has made this poor girl think that the her only skill in life is to have sex in front of a camera? Is she really that desparate for money? Look at her eyes. She's not enjoying this. She's a prostitute. Just like the poor homeless, abused drug addict who turns to selling her body because she feels it is the only answer."

As you can imagine, I don't feel the need to use such exploitative forms of entertainment now.

Another thing reinforcing this is something that goes back to the days when I worked in a night club... We regularly had stars coming. Mostly D-List TBH. One night was a porn actress. I was shocked to see that the other men had heard of her. Anyway, she was waiting with he body guards (the only one that ever came with bodyguard, if that says anything about how respectfully the industry is seen ), and I was just stocking the bar. I went passed her and looked at her. Her eyes were almost lifeless, if not for the fear an anxiety. You could see how she wanted to hunch and shrink away from anyone seeing her. And that is someone who, I have been told, has been shafted by 5 men at once. Ask yourself how she must feel. What must go through her head. Her demeaner screamed, "abuse victim," more than anyone I've seen. And, believing herself worthless of all other attributes and skills, has turned to allowing herself to be abused day in and day out, believing that the human race still sees nothing wrong with it.

Inmydream the way this works is that between posting random ideas from your mind we also post stuff and it would help the flow of discussion if you would read it.

Inmydreamimawesternhero - how do you know whether we [feminists] are "unattractive" or not? What constitutes attractiveness and who decides that? And if men are attracted to "nice bodies" (whatever that may mean) why are most men married to and partners of a whole range of women of many sizes and shapes?

i am confused

so feminists are only pretending to be upset at women being coerced into sex or raped and brutalised

really they are just jealous of their looks

presumably if these things were happening to 'unattractive' women feminists would not be quite so exercised

can you hear yourself?

:)

Thing is I obviously always spell it wrong but last time I used it I put it in inverted commas and now my phone thinks that's a word and autocorrects. Not even just a typo :(

Men like looking at attractive women with nice bodies - it's not beyond the realms of impossibility that some less attractive women are jealous of that.

Thank-you SSM

takes English teacher training certificate down from wall (metaphorically - it's not really on the frigging wall) and puts it into the 'worthless trash' pile>

(btw I had to check the spelling myself before daring to post that )

I always find th. 'jealousy' argument really sad. It says so much about the way the person calling it feels about other women. Is it really so hard to believe that some women actually care about others being abused and exploited? Is the only way we can perceive one another as competition for men :(

because it's spelt wrong? (should have 2 ns). Is it what an IPhone does instead of zigzaggy underlining?

Why would an I-phone add quote marks to unecessarily? I mean really, why?

We're jealous?

Yes, clearly. In my last job as a senior manager, in my current role as SAHM and in my relationship I often stop and say to myself how great life would be if there were just little more double anal to get me though the day.

Have you considered that you might be very stupid? And 'unecessarily' obsessive about Jordan?

and do you think feminists think fashion models starving themselves is ok?

why do you keep coming back to Katie Price? Do you think she's typical? If not, why are you basing your argument on someone who is an exception to the norm?

rofl @ the 'jealous' comment - it reliably comes up when people have no actual arguments left. Yeah, we're all feminists because we're jealous of porn actresses, very plausible

And if you want to hear stories of abuse - I'm reliably informed that female fashion models live on cotton wool balls soaked in orange juice just to stay thin.
I guess they make an informed choice about what to do with their lives/ body.

Inmydreams, you're not making sense at all there.

Just because most porn actress are pretty (that's debateable) and most are victims, it doesn't mean most female victims are attractive, and even if it were the case, why would it matter?

Beachcomber

Does your objection to porn then only relate to the harder violent stuff, and consensual sex porn is ok?

Why are most women in the porn industry very attractive with lovely bodies?
It's a bit unbelievable that all female 'victims' are physically attractive. Are some feminists jealous? - I have seen enough pornography to know that it consists mainly of good looking females. And if I had been Katie Price I would have done exactly what she's done. Should she have rejected a 20 million soft porn career to work in Tesco's just to keep a few feminists happy?

The point of working in a bank is not to be abused. (Counting money, processing checks, is the sort of thing that is involved in working in a bank.)

The point of being a woman in porn is to be abused. (Being called a dirty cock sucking whore, being penetrated painfully, being hit, having your hair pulled, being choked, is the sort of thing that is involved in working in porn.)

I agree it's not the best analogy, but the point is that a woman in the bank may be being abused by the bank, and by using that company/bank, etc, you are in a way complicit in that abuse. A better example might be the sweatshops that make our clothes. That was the point I was trying to make.

To be honest, I don't watch porn, so I don't know how much of it "appears" to be consensual sex, and how much of it is the violent abusive stuff. Does it matter if it's the former or the latter as to the complicity of the man?

Another thing the porn enthusiasts do is chop and change their perception as it suits them.

For example when a woman smiles in porn this means she is happy and having a good time - this is her real reaction as a real women.

When a woman is being verbally abused/made to gag/hit/brutally penetrated/ that isn't real enough to mean anything important.

Hypocrisy? Stupidity? Cruelty? You choose.

SGM

I'm anti-porn (I want to stress this), but the point I want to raise is why should they care, when they are presented with pictures of happy women having consensual sex?

Do you question whether the woman in the bank is being abused when she provides a service? The assumption is that she isn't. The abuse that occurs in porn is largely hidden from the consumer (unless we're talking very extreme porn)

My problem with porn is what I know to be true behind the masks, as well as more generally the objectification of women, and what the messages it gives to men about women.