Porn - I use it and feel bad - help convince me porn is wrong

I like the way Dittany uses language that mirrors the woman-hating propaganda used in porn

I mean, why not ? It is run-of-the-mill currency in some circles, obviously. Why not say exactly what is going on in the sex indusry ?

Not so palatable when directed at your own attitude though, is it ?

Otherwise it's like saying that Fred West was a bit of a naughty man

Ludicrous

Thanks for at least taking the time to engage me with reasonable argument charitygirl. I didn't actually say I'm great, I think I'm quite average really which is actually what i was trying to say. Nor do I think I'm particularly non sexist although I do think that women should have equal opportunities. I also think that women should be able to lead as fulfilled lives as men without male violence being perpetrated against them.
Also I think your interpretation of my post as whiny when I was just stating that not all men enjoy or approve of violent and degrading porn isn't helpful either.
Like I said in my first post I really have gained more respect for feminists having read many posts in here. I think that some people don't do the cause any good though and do come over as man haters. The worst example I can think of was when a man asked some quite reasonable questions and he was just attacked for doing so. One posters witty and non sexist reply was "I bet you have got a small penis". Does being a feminist mean that you don't have to treat others with respect?
Anyway thanks again for your thoughtful reply and sorry for taking this off topic. it wasn't my intention.

So right - in all my feministy internet wanderings I've NEVER seen women talking graphically about doing violent, degrading things to men. But when a 'mainstream' bloke says that he doesn't think 'mainstream' porn is a big problem, he is ABSOLUTELY saying it's ok for someone, somewhere to do violent degarding things to women, and for other people to watch it.

And inde - no, I'm not talking about you.

great posts Dittany and Charitygirl.

inde -Dittany is SO not agressive. She is extremely forthright, but given the fact that she is personally attacked on virtually every single thread (as you did), she is very restrained, and doggedly plays the ball, and not the (wo)man. Given the vitriol she attracts, I think it is amazing that she doesn't resort to personal insults.

Perhaps by 'aggressive' you mean 'makes what I posted about how I am so great and non-sexist look irrelevant, complacent and whiney'?

Dittany, I was posting in a hurry as my wife wanted to go shopping. Who else do you think I was apologising too?
Perhaps you could consider the way you interact with other people in this forum too. Just because people don't entirely agree with your politics doesn't give you the right to talk to people the way you do. Aggression breeds aggression. Having said that, like I said, on reading your post it wasn't as bad as I first though and I do apologise.

honestly don't do it, I'm going to go and cry in the garden now

Carmina...are you not following the logic on this thread that the "soft" stuff you use is all part of a bigger picture ?

I asssume you mean that you use lesbian porn. You do realise that the people who most profit from lesbian porn are men ? Girl on girl action is the least well-paid area of porn "acting".

Many women endure porn "acting" because they need the money, often for addictions of their own. Now go figure. More addiction=need more money=have to step up the ladder of degradation.

RitaLynn, look in Pornland by Gail Dines, she is an academic and uses proper peer-reviewed research.

EF - I will be honest. I like it.
I've never viewed violent porn and never would, the only porn I've used has ( as far as I know ) consenting adults in ( they aren't being held down or abused in any way - male free zone iykwim ) it's a difficult subject because a lot of porn is normal stuff and not likely to damage anyone. it's the disgustingly violent stuff that should go - and if by getting rid of that everything else had to go then fine - maybe it's easier to shut down the whole thing than spend ££££££ and god knows how much time shifting through it all.

ok, I googled "most viewed porn"

number one was the YouPorn site

on the first page couple of pages are some lovely titles to draw in the most discerning user...

(misogyny alert...look away now if you don't wish to see it)

"Think You're a model? Suck my cock first"

"Goth girl ass fucked"

"18th birthday...fucked on camera"

"Pussy right on the floor"

"Blonde K... gangbangs for Facials"

"Rough anal action"

And on number 2...

"Fucking Lolita"

"Virgin Ass"

OK, I've had enough. I think I made my point. < goes to wash hands repeatedly >

don't do it HerBex. Honestly, don't - I wish I hadn't.

I thought I was quite unshockable - I used to read a lot of erotic literature and have seen porn mags and the odd bit on tv in the past - but this is so, so different.
it was so violent. even where it was 'two hot chicks' it was basically one flinging the other one round and jamming stuff up her hard. it makes Knave from the 1990s look very sweet and romantic by comparison

ok, I just did Beachcomber's experiment of typing porn into google and clicking on the first site that came up. I didn't go any further than that because I didn't have to - there were videos coming up on the screen of women being hurt. One of the windows that opened was called '18 and abused', the one next to it was 'barely legal' with pictures of women with their hair in bunches. and a pic of a woman having an orifice (I didn't try to work out which one) stretched wide open.

this is hateful, hateful, stuff. sorry, but I can't buy into this myth of the 'good' porn user: if you only want to get off on consensual images of happy couples having nice sex you still have to face up to the fact that such things are being used to create a front for the enormous quantities of violent abusive videos that are out there.
Even if you personally do not get off on the violence you need to admit that by defending your right to the non-violent stuff you are enabling the violent stuff to happen. You are sacrificing the people who are harmed by the violent stuff to your desire for stimulation; even if not actively enjoying their suffering as some men are you are treating them as acceptable collateral damage.

I wonder if the results would be different if you did the experiment at different times of the day, week, month etc.?

Other than our anecdotal evidence, does anyone know of any peer-reviewed literature on this?

EggyFucker, because I did the same experiment and got different results, why won't you accept that?

I looked at the "most popular", and I agree, a lot of it isn't Mills and Boon, but most of the most viewed seems to be "hot chick bangs lucky dude", that sort of thing, rather than "slut chokes, etc"

Rita, the evidence about what porn-users watch is right there, in top 10 Google searches

So-called popular, mainstream, free sites like YouPorn are chocka with abusive images of women being degraded

Why can't you accept that evidence ?

The reason, in my humble opinion, is that it goes too far, is that it makes a statement about what men like to watch when they watch porn, without any evidence to support it

Carmina, everything that you post about how you use porn and your worries about it's effect on wider society indicates to me that you are one step away from ceasing to use it

Why won't you make that final step ?

Despite me doing these searches, I would be very interested in reading peer-reviewed literature on the content of pornography, and seeing the results, rather than our anecdotal claims. Does anyone know of such a study?

I'm too scared to do the googling porn experiment

Why is that going too far Rita?

It is after all, one of the most commonly viewed porn images.

And also Dittany made a valid point. Inde came in with a personal attack directly addressed to her but when he apologised it was slightly more oblique and slightly ambiguous about whether it was directed to her or to the board in general.

It is very valuable that there is someone here on this board who picks up on these dynamics - I wouldn't have noticed it if Dittany hadn't pointed it out and it is not jsut shit stirring or aggressive to point it out - it is very valuable to analyse the way men and women interract with each other even on the internet. I'm sure Inde is big enough to cope and to think about any observations that are made to him.