Why are society's restrictions on men's appearance never mentioned?

thumbwitch - people are defined by their job - I'd say it's the number one defining factor actually.

Why don't we all just wear what we like and not worry about what anyone else wears? That way we are all a being true to ourselves.....just a thought....

Masculinity seems to involve hiding as much of your body shape as you can, and detracting from what you actually look like by wearing clothes, and sometimes actually developing a bogy shape that is amorphous.

Femininity seems to be the opposite, where women are under pressure to accentuate everything about their bodies, so that clothes are tighter, breasts are bigger, legs are longer, cheekbones are higher, lips are brighter and so on.

So I think the best way of resisting masculinity is not to embrace things like skirts or high heels, but to wear clothes that actually show you have a male (rather than masculine) body. What would be controversial would be for a man beyond his teens to be toned and then wore clothes that accentuated that tone - top that finished above the midriff. So I don't think you reject masculinity by wearing signs of femininity. You reject masculinity by wearing clothes that reveal your body to be that of a male and not a masculine blob.

Women's accentuate the female body into a parody of themselves. Men's clothes disguise the fact that they have a man's body, or for that matter a human body at all.

Ahh Teitetua, but the sight of a group of Samoan men, with white formal lavalavas, short white sleeved shirts and sandals is a sight to behold.

I have never understood 'you are what you wear' - my clothes are not that easy to read, no-one's are. It's shallow to imagine people are that simple (or that they care that much about what you wear - I know some people like to present an image but I'm always wary of choosing to judge them by that, it's usually false).

I wouldn't be too bothered about going out in a skirt, or make-up. I like dressing flamboyantly (goth-trained) although I don't do it anymore.

I would expect the chances of aggro from other men would go up.

However, dressing like that while with out both kids would be a bridge too far for me.

CB - "you are what you wear in most cases" - that is such a restrictive and diminishing view to have of people! And so so wrong... most people wear clothes appropriate to their setting, not to "show who they are" 100% of the time.
Suggesting that someone is defined by their clothing is as reductionist as defining them by their job.

In the picture of the Fijian men in lava-lavas, they're all wearing ties and only one has given himself the liberty of wearing a short sleeved shirt. And even then, the sleeves are elbow length.

I tell you, back in Tei Tetua's cannibal days, men weren't afraid to show a little skin.

What I want to know is, when men start wearing skirts, will they be under social pressure to shave their legs? It's interesting that there's this devil's bargain, that women have much more freedom to wear clothes that reveal the body, but it comes at the price of "no body hair must ever show". Whereas at least if a bloke goes down to the supermarket on a warm day, he can wear shorts with his natural fur visible. But for most occasions, he's forced to wear long trousers regardless of the season.

And it's very interesting that in the last 30 years or so, men, especially young ones, have been feeling obliged to wear longer and longer shorts and swimsuits. It's as if manly thighs have been getting increasingly obscene.

Images of American basketball players from the early 80s and now:

lakers.topbuzz.com/gallery/d/4353-2/magic-vs-bird-AADQ010_Larry-Bird-and-Magic-Johnson-Photofile-Posters.jpg

cache.boston.com/bonzai-fba/Globe_Photo/2011/02/11/16__1297431476_9171.jpg

BD - I'm not saying all women with grey hair/no make up/ boring clothes are all leading really dull lives - ( how many flamboyant comedians are manic depressives? Loads ) I just think our appearance says a lot about us - if it didn't we would never have punk/goth/new romantic/hippy and 100's of other 'identities' - you are what you wear in most cases

nothing worse than being invisible? good heavens.
for you maybe, if you need constant external validation, not everyone does though

Where I come from it's not uncommon to see men at work wearing a lavalava It's perfectly acceptable formal wear.

CB that is so judgy. How do you know those women's lives aren't exciting and colourful - they just may not show it though their clothes. Have you thought that may be they just can;t be bothered with clothes and all the rest of it, that they have other things in their lives?

Seth
I said earlier I dress Tom boyish ( boots/ trousers/ jackets - usually all black ) but I'll wear that with girly belts and a bright purple scarf, ( for example ) plus perfume and make up - I mix feminity with masculinity very well. I suppose with me I still like to look attractive - I'm not sure who I want to attract as I'm happily married - I just don't think there's anything worse than being 'invisable'

Oh and
Work clothing is different - we all have to confirm at work to a certain extent.

It's curious that one of the very few fashion styles to have survived from the 80s is that of it being at least mildly acceptable for male goths/emos to wear make-up.

Admittedly, these days it tends to be limited to a bit of eye liner and maybe some black nail varnish rather than the full Robert Smith-esque lipstick and eye shadow look, but it's still hanging on in there.

Carmina I find it interesting how you're conflating groomedness with brightness and fun.

what about women who are very groomed but always wear dark rather lifeless clothes? And contrast that with someone who has fun with colour and patterns but has untidy hair and never wears make-up?

one of the mums at my school dresses like a bit of a biker chick normally and has fun with t-shirts and different trousers and jackets; sometimes she's there in her work clothes for her office job which are skirts, feminine tops, heels and make-up; she is way more vibrant and less groomed in her normal clothes than in her spirit-sapping office clothes which are clearly all about her fitting in.

It's threads like this that make me realise how long I have been a feminist for.
I've never lived a life which involves having to dress a particular way (I have worked for a clothing retailer and was told I had to wear make up or else, but simply didn't; I wore flats and mainly trousers). Anyone who's ever thought to tell me to be more feminine has been told no naff orf. I can think of two: one creepy colleague, and one friend who wondered if I might be sexually inhibited because I don't show a lot of flesh. No, I live in a cool country, ffs.

Ditto DH. He trims his beard a bit a few times a year, he wears the same clothes no matter the season, he refuses to work in the private sector because he'd have to wear a suit. I do see the point about him being unable to wear a skirt or make up, though.

I'm guessing David was being tongue in cheek and I took it a bit too seriously.

carmina - would dying my leg hair purple count as colour?

seth - PMSL. That's awful, but funny.

Well I agree with those things too narky but you wouldn't want men to do them on just one day of the year

No - I don't understand the difference between being female and the artificial concept of femininty.

If I left everything to nature I'd still look ok, just not as good as I do now. I look at some of the mums at my school and honestly they look awful - greying hair, no make up, totally uninspired clothing - it's almost as if they've given up. A little make up, a few bright accessories would really make a difference - liven them up a bit.

we have one life - make it full of excitement and colour.

Interesting that you see 'resisting masculinity' as 'doing (stereotypically) feminine things' David. I know you're joking but it's still quite telling about the notion of masculinity being defined as the absence of femininity etc...

Oh dear David. How about:

Men doing a mile stroll with their infant children in pushchairs, because men are able to care for young children and there's nothing emasculating about pushing a pram - men are just as capable of parenting.

Men talking about emotion and loss, because tears are not a sign of weakness, and the repression of emotion caused in part by society's intolerance of men expressing their feelings contributes to the high rate of male suicide.

love it David.

-carry a handbag
-do needlework

David, you know, the chick lit is a good one - I always find it really funny in waiting rooms to see which men will pick up a copy of Cosmo and have a good read, and which furtively sneak peeks at it! It'd be interesting to see the reactions you got if you read a bright pink chick-lit book on the tube - do it! Film it! Let us see!

narky - no worries, fast moving thread and carmina and I obviously have a fair amount in common about the way we like to dress, just different interpretations of it.