Article on Motherhood in Guardian

GWTMH, it is all about feminism and not to do with your perceived ( which it is)..inadequacy, it is a really tough internal struggle.

SA exactly, I almost feel like. I am cheating, because these changes were forced on me it is much harder to break out of the mould as a married woman (assuming you want to as you correctly point out above).

argh please excuse typos and terrible grammar!

Um, I think if the conversation continues I'll become more articulate and and more precise in hwat I think, so bear with me!

I have felt like I've automatically fallen into the role of housewife and the expectations of both myself and DH are that I will take care of not only the housework and childcare, but finances, organising our social lives etc. I'm not really sure what he is responsible for apart form earning the money (which of course I am massively grateful for).

I would love to be in the position which a lot of women seem to be whereby once the husband comes home he takes over by cooking or putting the children to bed (which DH does occasionally do to be fair), or that he'll get up in the morning with DS in the week. But on two counts I don't feel able to make those substantial changes. Namely 1 (very personally) I have tried and though we have conversations about it, it never changes in a substantial enough way to make any kind of impact. In both our heads, I am the responsible one which I believe if it were him would make him the authority but as it is me, makes me feel like the servant and he the one wiht freedom. 2 (and this is coming from me, not from anything DH has ever said or implied) I should be grateful that he works really hard and sometimes doing somehting he doesn't enjoy that has allowed us to have a family relatively young which will free me up to concentrate on my career later when it is harder to "take a break" once momentum has got going.

I think the poinst reiterated in this thread that the article brings up are interesting in that women can never get it right - if we choose to go back to work we are selfish, if we choose to stay at home we are wasters. A man may choose either and be a hero. I personally sturggle with feelings of loss for my independence, my formerly very equal relationship and guilt that I don't want to spend every waking second with my child.

I think this is less about feminism and more about my own feelings of inadequacy though

What kind of things would you say were non conventional choices and why do you feel like you cant make them (not having a go just interested?)

x-posted again

I agree snowmama, which is maybe why I can relate to her!

it sounds like a horrible way to have to go through that snowmama but also brilliant that it has liberated you. as a mostly happily married woman I wish I could feel free enough to make those non conventional choices

...GWTMH...sorry xposted...agree, but she does sound so unhappy.

I don't have lots of people happy to help out. My support network includes services I pay for, favour exchanges and the occasional family help.

My point was that when seperating, I had to re-imagine my life to ensure my kids were cared for, the bills were paid, the domestic chores covered and we were happy and I was nor suicidal..

To do so I have made some non conventional choices, and to free myself from some 'good woman roles', in my head....it has been liberating and exciting to do so and in the end makes me a more confident happier mother. This not to knock supportive partners and families...I am all for them!

sorry, didn't read the 2nd page of responses and hence am about a page behind in the dialogue!!

Isn't the whole point of the article to be selfish though? She is talking about herself and how she feels and where she is coming from, not claiming to make it an all rounded article about her PFB. I don't see the harm in occasionally being allowed to voice these concerns and worries, otherwise the assumption continues that mothers will shoulder all responsibility and do it happily...

I disagree the article doesn't appeal to younger parents, or try to speak to them anyway. I'm the youngest in my "mum" group (25 when I had DS, the group ranges up to 38) and don't think I've had any an easier time than the women older than me. Or them me for that matter. Age does not discriminate.

I quite liked the article as it does exactly what it says on the tin - it doesn't claim to be an article extoling the virtues of motherhood, in fact says what all articles that periodicaly come out like this do - that it's bloody hard work, no matter how "realistic" you try to imagine your life being post childbirth, nothing prepares you for changes that you can't imagine until you get there.

It was good she got responses from a range of mothers and fathers and I also thought balanced in both taking responsibility for hovering our her DH when he did try to take charge and in apportioning blame where it is rightly deserved on society expecting women to fulfil both roles as career orientated and as a mother and do both successfully without moaning about it.

The trouble is articles like this come out, a lot of guardian readers comment on it for a while then the issues disappear and we all go back to normal. Motherhood is such a subjective experience, it doesn't hurt to once in a while be brutally honest about all the experiences it entails.

I'm lucky to have very hands on parents and a DH who (though is shit about housework etc) is very supportive of the fledgling career I have which brings in no money and often costs money to support. I have been 'allowed' freedom and yet have still suffered a huge identity crisis thanks to the labels automatically put on me by myself and others by becoming a mother (as opposed to a parent - no judgements are ever put on DH)

I am married but have nights to myself every week as my parents look after our daughter then I also go out clubbing/socialising whenever I want on top of that cause my husband looks after her.

It depends on whether you are lucky enough to have loads of people that want to help, whoever they may be, not whether you are single or not. I have to say my life is way easier after kids than before. Time to myself, dont have to work so much etc. I realise I am very lucky though.

Argh just lost a long response! But in summary I completely agree SA. Since becoming single I have managed to but in a whole support infrastructure that allows me more fun times with my kids, more flexibility to work full time...but not straight office hours as previously and some sneaky fun time.

Noodle, yes supportive partners can enable recharge time, but I still feel that the weight of expectation on married women'.s shoulders is phenomenal...and amount of roles expected to be played, as detailed by SA, is very demanding

I think if you have a decent partner you get loads of solo recharge time. It is only if you are going out with someone who doesnt help you dont get time to yourself. My social life hasnt changed at all after kids really.

Completely, I do find many aspects if parenting easier since becoming single.

I had assumed that the lack of detail about the child was an attempt at anonymity, but it does make her appear very disconnected from her child.

I agree with everyone that commented that this article is written from a very middle class, two parent perspective.

That said what struck me, is that she had not done any reflection on what sort of either/parenting model she/they wanted....she has more choices than she acknowledged. In my experience (depression or relationship issues aside), the happiest, most contented mothers I meet are the ones who makes choices right for them (be it SAHM, WOHM, flexible working), particularly for those in relationships who negotiate an effective partnership for them (whatever shape that may take)....I am a single mama so can offer no insight on that.

However I do know that, by making choices that suit me I have loved motherhood from the start despite challenges. If I had made different choices I would probably feel like the author of the article.

I think if there are added pressures on the type of family portrayed in the article. If one parent is in a very high pressured, stressful job of course it is harder to come home and do childcare etc. It is different if you have a 'lower' type of job that is physically tiring, but not necessarily mentally so. You come out of work and dont think about it until your next in. Hats off to people who do high stress jobs and especially to families with two parents where both mum and dad are working in that type of job. I can see how that would make both of the couple very stressed.

The area I am in most people have parents young, and the men work in more manual/trade type of jobs or the tourism industry. This means a lot do different hours to standard and so are around when the nursery is open/through the week. Also mums here often work to so cant always be around for nursery hours so you get mums doing drop off sometimes, dads do drops off. We have a few single dads as well who have full custody/shared custody of the children.We also come under Surestart and there are dads on the Parent Advisory Board.

When I am in town it is normal to see young men (teens/20s out on their own with children/babies). You also get men and their friends out with babies. My husband always goes with other dads to the park, beach etc. There are obviously more women out but that comes from single parents who often dont work. I wont say it is perfect here and there are obviously some dads that see it as a womens role but overall I would say it is more fair.

SaF yes I thought that too, about the T. shirt.

Noodle - the point is that this article took a very narrow perspective on what is a very different experience depending on backgrounds etc. What you said about your nursery is interesting - that the men are involved - and I would be interested in reading about that. But I also take your point that the journalist is writing for a certain demographic - these are Guardian readers.