Article on Motherhood in Guardian

.. the 'emotional price' of support from family is (maybe for different reasons), is precisely why I pay for most of my support network.

If you cant afford it its best to get TCS and just do it that way. I get all mine paid for me and my daughter was in 3 days since 4 months, then 4 days at 8 months and now 5 days. Thats why TCs I think are really brilliant cause you wouldnt get that in the past.

Sorry, SAF... I am thinking out loud and not necessarily thinking through before posting.

I really don't think that you need to be 'missing' anything to have a right to struggle/feel isolated or just find motherhood really hard.

I do think working offers you more freedom and control over your life (but would not say therefore everyone should take this route).

I also still think that the individualistic nature of UK society drives isolation (and division ) in motherhood. So, it is a bit controversial to say pay for help, or you have to be really grateful to your family if they help you out. Or as with this (and the other thread) - get judged for saying motherhood is very hard.

Ha ha. My knees feel a little creak this morning! Yes, you are completely correct (as I mentally tick off each and every point on your list!).

Snowmama, I am also the sturdy provider [mimes knees buckling]. It's perfectly reasonable to FEEL isolated, but motherhood is a life change for everyone. If you don't give up your earning power, you still have to make other adjustments, like leaking breasts in meetings, trying to stay awake in same after a nearly sleepless night, and crying on your way to work because you left your baby with a slightly sniffly cold or crying 'Mummy, mummy.' You also still take a career hit because you no longer spend hours schmoozing in the pub. But perhaps our kind have/had less time to write about it.

seiglinde... I don't have a sturdy provider in the wings.. I am the sturdy provider. ... I actually have very little to complain about (in this context).

So yes, the author could return to work (I know I did) - but I guess the question is if you feel obliged/compelled/want to stay at home longer - how do you adjust to the life change and is it not reasonable to expect not to be/feel completely isolated?

I know I am going to sound very Xenia like now, but if you don't give up your earning power - you don't have to make that adjustment... which leads to the next point from ssd.

If you can't afford help -then you are probably entitled to TC support to go back to work..which would at the very least give you the headspace break.

"in selfish terms i think it's good to get paid help if you can afford it "

big IF there

what if you can't afford it

what if you have no family nearby to support you

what if you do just have to get on with it?

then you do have something to moan about

I so agree, NormanTebbit (not words I've ever uttered before... regarding your namesake..).

I am so sick of these very well-off women moaning at us about their lives, just because they've discovered babies are sometimes sick all over them, as though they think being MOI ought to confer some immunity from it. As for the breadwinner versus SAHM role thing, they seem to have chosen it, and then been amazed that it makes a difference. Of COURSE if one person is doing most of the earning then the other will be doing the childcare. Duh.

If people like her wished to, they could go back to full-time work and employ childcare. if they don't want to do that, they should really STOP COMPLAINING. Yes, it's an adjustment, but it's not insuperable. If the author had read Betty Friedan, she'd know that it was no better when women were 'educated' for 'home-making'. It just is a huge life change, and advice is useless because you have to live through it in your own way.

Meanwhile, women who don't have some sturdy provider in the wings have something to complain ABOUT....

I think its ok doing all the rushing around with the kids as long as you get a break either through nursery, or work out a way to get a night out at the weekend, or to go out at night once their in bed. It makes the world of difference. I must be mad though as I have my own and I work with 30 screaming little ones every day lol! I dont mind as long as I have a night out to recharge and then I am back ready to go again.

I think you will find LeninGrad that those sessions will make a world of difference to you both.

I still find...I mean.

Yes, the notion you should just cope is massive. I think you did exactly the right thing. U still find my fairly demanding job in the week, easier than the weekends rushing around with the kids, though I enjoy weekends more.

I love the bones if my kids, but little ones are truly relentless :)

Agreed. The single most important thing I did (as a married and single mother) was to get weekly cleaning support

... and the first light bulb moment for me that all was not as it should be between me and my ex, was being 'persuaded' by him that it was an unnecessary expense during my maternity leave. Despite my maternity pay being able to cover it and me being desperate for it (grrr that still annoys me).

I guess the argument with Surestart would be that it's primarily to improve children's chances of getting a more equal start in life, rather than to provide support for mothers. Of course the two things are not unconnected, but generally the middle class children are not disadvantaged in the same ways many poorer ones are, and not at risk of the same bad outcomes, regardless of how stressed and unfulfilled their 'yummy mummies' are.

These are big generalisations though, and I agree it seems like a good thing to have a diverse range of people attending these schemes.

I totally agree snowmama. Thats why I hope it doesnt go that way. I think there should be a mix of people from the area if possible. Both mums and dads, ones struggling and ones not so much. I think it makes it more like a community.

I think I am still of the opinion that mums needing support, cuts accross age and socio-economic factors

I also have always thought that a diversity of people attending sure start schemes would be a good thing.. but perhaps that is a naive response on my part.

Not really true madwoman. I see children who are really in need of surestart support in my area. Ones that are under SS which really need help. They need help more than anyone I think and thats what I hope to do in my job is help them have a some kind of normal childhood. Its the really, really disadavantaged that Surestart want to be able to help and that is a very difficult process.

I still dont believe in segregated Surestarts though. As though we dont have middle class mummies at our setting we do have lotsof working class parents who have a similar background to mine. I do think it benefots people who have had no decent parenting role models growing up and the children living in very difficult situations such as being exposed to DV, hard drug use etc to see other types of families and parents to help them pull themselves up from the difficulties that they face.