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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Dads and babies

207 replies

BlingLoving · 24/03/2011 16:04

This is kind of a thread about a thread, so sorry about that.

I see a lot of threads commenting on the mother's right to make ultimate decisions for her DC, particularly when they're babies. Lots of comments about "you are his mother, you know best" or "mothers' instincts are the best source of decision making" (I'm paraphrasing obviously).

I am still waiting for DC1 to arrive, so am interested to see how I feel after that, but this doesn't seem fair to me. Clearly, in the very beginning of course I can see how that is naturally going to happen on the basis that the mother tends to be with baby 24/7 - especially if she's breastfeeding - plus she has all those hormones washing around from pregnancy and birth and so on.

But surely there comes a point, fairly early on, where, assuming that DH/DP is involved and engaged, his opinions and ability to look after his child are pretty much equal to the mother's?

I am getting clearer and clearer in my own head that feminism has to be a two way process - that for it to work, both men and women also have to stop seeing men as less competant at certain tasks and that both sexes have to step up and take on responsibilities that were traditionally allocated to one or the other. And this seems like an obvious addition to that thought process. What are other thoughts?

OP posts:
InmaculadaConcepcion · 24/03/2011 17:49

Agree about the breastfeeding. Lactation is one thing a man can't do so the father needs to bow to his partner's preference on that one and be as supportive as he can IMO.

It's the opposite in our case, TPL...when I said to DH I was intending to start weaning DD off the breast he asked if I was sure I wanted to wean her just yet (she's 14 months and still breastfeeding...) but he left it up to me and didn't put any pressure on either way.

dittany · 24/03/2011 17:48

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

TheProvincialLady · 24/03/2011 17:09

I also think that it is pretty hard to argue against extended BF from the point of view of the child's health, current and future, and if a mother is prepared to BF past 6m/1y then a father would be pretty selfish to want to end that because of his discomfort or embarrassment. If it is causing issues within their relationship then the couple need to work on that together, but IMO stopping BF under those circumstances is the least desirable outcome.

Treats · 24/03/2011 16:58

I'm with you OP - and this was my experience with DD (18m). I don't think I felt at ANY stage that I was more competent than DH to look after her (clearly I have faulty hormones Wink)

I did BF, but if I'm honest I didn't much enjoy it and embraced mixed feeding quite early on, largely because it meant that DH could have a turn. We took turns at getting her to sleep - and he was generally much more successful than I was. It wasn't my personal experience that being her mother made me intrinsically more able to care for her. DH and I have different strengths and DD has benefitted from both.

Personally - and I'm prepared to be shouted down - I think the mother has preferences about how she wants to parent, and this is the biggest influence on the extent to which the other parent is involved. IME, it's got little to do with 'nature'.

InmaculadaConcepcion · 24/03/2011 16:51

I think it depends on the couple, TBH. Some men are very keen to be hands on and even if they're not naturally tuned into their DCs straight away, they soon learn. But some definitely aren't, so in those cases, Mum does know best. But I'm not convinced mothering is entirely instinctive nowadays, lots of women struggle, especially with the baby stage. And their DP/DH may well be in just as strong a position as they are to make decisions etc. about what the baby needs.

My DH is very hands-on and loves it. He has a great relationship with DD and I feel entirely comfortable leaving him in charge of her. But I know plenty of women whose OHs wouldn't feel at ease with the situation of being in charge of the baby.

It's one of those areas you negotiate as a couple - assuming you both get equally stuck into the parenting.

BertieBotts · 24/03/2011 16:46

I'm going to find it hard to argue about this because I have strong feelings on the subject which may or may not be rational. Just before I start. Grin

I think this rides on a lot of things. Mainly though the issue in question - ie how serious it is - and also the couple's relationship. I'll start with the relationship because it's the most problematic IMO.

I know mumsnet has a reputation for "shouting abuse", but control over parenting decisions is a very common abuse tactic, and one which is very difficult to spot. Please note I'm NOT saying it's abusive for a father to have a different opinion about parenting issues to a mother - but that when these disagreements are used to control, it's incredibly undermining. A lot of it rides on the way these differences are resolved. If the parents can have a calm, reasoned discussion, maybe do some research together, and come to an agreement which both are happy with then that is fine. Evidently there will be cases when both parents have extremely strong but opposite views - I think it helps in this instance to understand the other's motivation and reasoning behind the decision. Even if there is no way of reconciling both opinions I think there are always ways to compromise. If you can't reach this together without one person overriding and using bullying tactics to win then there is a problem there, and the one being overridden DOES and SHOULD have the right to stand up for their own views.

The other thing is that issues parents argue over are often extremely emotional ones. Subjects like length of breastfeeding, bed sharing, and discipline issues often have roots for adults going back into their own childhoods. This is why I think it's important to be able to listen to each others' motivation and be open to being challenged on your own. And be willing to do some research as well. And perhaps adopt an approach in which both parents do use their own approach, as long as one does not massively contradict the other. I was talking to my bf about discipline issues, in particular, as although there's no way I'd be expecting him to help out with discipline issues at this stage in our relationship, I wanted to explain to him how I do things so that if there was ever a situation where he felt he needed that information he had it. And he listened and he agreed with much of what I said, but then he said that he actually felt it was really important for parents not to parent in exactly the same way as each other. He felt it was important for children to see that there are different approaches to doing things. And I thought that was really interesting, since a lot of the time all you hear is "Parents must show a united front" and advice like to discuss bedtime routines or discipline techniques etc with a babysitter or a childminder or a separated father. But I think he does have a good point.

TheProvincialLady · 24/03/2011 16:29

The vast majority of women care for - in a practical way - their babies and children FAR more than the baby's father. Even those who work outside of the home (and yes, I am sure there are plenty of couples who split is 50:50, but statistically a small number). I think that gives them the right to make decisions about feeding the baby, since they will be the one making up bottles or purees etc.

As to ability to care for the child - it depends. In my case, being a co sleeping BFing hippy type, my DH was not until recently able to deliver the same care, because DS2 was more attached to me as his primary carer. And I think that is absolutely fine and normal.

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