Dads and babies

There is evidence that boys brought up without a strong male influence are more likely to develop behavioural problems, including violence, which can most definitely lead to physical harm.

And damages women as well ultimately so even if that's all you care about it's worthy of concern.

See the thread titled "How might it change our whole society if both men and women were equally responsible for... (45 Posts) ...childcare?"

It's unusual, but if you (both) want to do it, you certainly can. Obviously breast-feeding imposes its own inequality, but you can use a pump and let the dh feed with a bottle sometimes, if the kid will tolerate it. Maybe take 4-hour watches each through the night, like aboard ship?

There might be some confidence issues, depending on the bloke's personality. As in "Do I really belong with this baby so much?" But really, anyone can do it.

Once it becomes an issue of DC2, 3 or more, then he's the one to care for the older children while the new baby's nursing. Maybe the real achievement is to work together in a way that suits you both, or suits you all, including the little darlings.

I meant to add that dh does tend to defer to me with any decisions (if I am at home, anyway). However there is rarely a difference of opinion as we tend to parent in similar ways.
I think part of the reason I get the final say on anything is that I am with the dds more often which was my choice as I mentioned above.

Yes, Gently, I know I was fiercely possessive of my "turf" to begin with - no one else got a look-in when it came to how to care for DD. Also, DH was nervous of taking charge of her even while a took a short shower as he felt so powerless if she cried because he figured the only way to stop her crying was offer her the breast.

With DC2 (hopefully) I wonder if I will be as precious? And DH and I will both be more confident, second time round, so I suspect I'll be more relaxed at letting him take charge of the baby and so will he.

Another initially co-sleeping/sling-wearing/breast-feeder here... (although DD now generally sleeps in her cot, often gets carted around in a buggy and is being weaned....)

Report back, please Bling - it will be interesting to see whether your feelings on the matter change once your DC is with you!

Dh and I have a fairly "unusual" relationship (in comparison with the rl families/couples we know anyway)

He has always pulled his weight wrt childcare, despite working ft. I was undecided whether I would return ft (in the event I didn't). He waited until I made my decision but also said if my decision was ft then he would probably cut down to 4 days as he would prefer the dds to have 3 days with a parent rather than 2 in the week if possible. (there was no pressure on me regarding this)

He has always done bedtime/bathtime since the dds were newborn. (obviously I did the bf when this was applicable). He supported me with feeding choices, including firm words with his parents when they tried to embarrass me about bf. With dd2 I expressed and he and dd1 gave ebm in bottles but it was my choice to bf/express or ff.

I am often wound up in rl when people tell me I am "lucky" as if it is somehow miraculous that a man may want to spend time with his dcs. Sometimes people suggest that it is hard on him if he has to look after his own children while I work all weekend. (rather than go fishing/betting shop or wherever)

I disagree with Dittany that there is no evidence of harm from this.

I think boys are seriously lacking in male input in many sectors of our society and would greatly benefit from having fathers that are much more involved and engaged.

If you respect your DH, of course you won't dismiss his opinion just because he's a man though!

FWIW I experienced the same as Engelbert - XP was controlling and wanted to make decisions I didn't agree with e.g. move DS out of our bed and into his own room. He didn't get up at all at night to help, even if DS was ill, even if that was at the weekend. There was no way in hell I was letting him dictate where DS slept when it would mean extra work for me, he wasn't likely to share this burden at all AND it went against my principles etc which I'd researched and decided on what I thought was best for DS. His reasoning was "I want more sex" and "It's weird". I wasn't willing to listen to that opinion because "it's weird" is a non-argument, and I tried all sorts of compromises on the sex front but he was never happy with that anyway. It wasn't anything to do with him being a man.

Recently I was having a hypothetical conversation with bf and he said "If we ever have kids, I don't want them in our bed and breastfeeding past the age of 2." And at first I was all offended and thought, no, I'll do what I think is best - but then I was thinking about it and I thought actually, bf isn't crazy and controlling like XP was. He's reasonable and a, he'd be willing to have an actual discussion about things and actually listen to my reasoning, and b, I'm 100% sure we could both think about the reasoning behind each of our choices and come to a compromise based on those. So his opinion carries more weight, because I know he'd listen to mine.

I think it really does depend on how the mother chooses to do the baby phase.

If you are bfing on demand, then that necessarily restricts the dh's ability to take charge of the baby. The mother will necessarily have a stronger bond with the baby in the beginning because of this.

In this case, the mother will be shouldering the majority of the burden of childcare and the father's job is to support her in whatever way she needs.

However, as the dc get older and become more independent the father will become more able to take responsibility for them for extended periods - at which point his way of parenting will become a more significant factor in the childrearing.

I agree with the poster who said that it is beneficial for children to be exposed to different parenting styles from both parents. Dh and I parent very differently, and have quite open (amicable) discussions in front of the dc as to our disagreements.

The rule is that in the end whoever has responsibility for the child in that particular moment makes the decision.

Ds1 has accepted this very well and now practically never says 'but Daddy lets me' any more - and neither dh nor I are having to compromise on the way we treat our dc.

Hopefully without being in the least patronising or 'just you wait and see', I would be genuinely interested in whether your feelings remain the same a few months after you have given birth. In some ways, I found it much easier to be objective prior to actually having a baby, and then once they are with you, the hormones kick in for better or worse, and feelings definitely changed - I think at this point I felt like I had more control. But I'm also a co-sleeping extended breast feeder (with dp's full support), and maybe this makes a difference?

I totally agree with Bertie and dittany about the breastfeeding. What if the breastfeeding is painful for the woman and she can't stand doing it any more? If the man says, "No, you should bf our DC for a minimum of X months, you can't stop now," then I would want to tell him where to stuff it. And given the amount of evidence about the benefits of bf for babies (not to mention the emotional connection between baby and mother etc.) if the man wanted the woman to stop it because he felt "uncomfortable".... Well, once again, I would tell him where to get off.

But I think we have to tread carefully when we talk of maternal "power". I agree, if a man is using the situation to undermine the woman when it comes to important parenting decisions, then yes, that's not on.

But I also think regarding motherhood as some sort of power base is tricky because many men are all too happy to throw up their hands and step aside from exercising parental power because it also means parental responsibility. So once again, it's all down to the woman to hold it together.

Before the nuclear family held sway, women had solid support networks and extended family set-ups within which they could get support and advice etc. (from other female members of the family, usually). Now many women live miles away from such support systems and their partner needs to step up and give them that support. To take on some of that awesome responsibility over this little life he's (usually) been involved in creating.

With power comes responsibility. The woman shouldn't have to shoulder it all alone, if she has a partner who is willing to take on his fair share.

"If I choose not to bf because I'm not comfortable with it, that's considered a valid argument so I feel a man should at least have the right to an opinion on that."

Well yes - but it's a valid argument because you are the one who has to do it. If a man didn't want his partner to breastfeed because he felt uncomfortable with it I'd think that was a ridiculous argument.

For me the problem is that women are often much better informed about issues to do with babies and childcare, and therefore better able to make these decisions. Plus as a number of posters have pointed out, they do more of the childcare/feeding in most cases, making it a bit of farce if the man starts to lay down the law.

Although it is often - and rightly - said on MN that SAHMs should have equal say over the household finances, even though they are not directly earning the money. I wonder whether there is a parallel here - a WOHD is earning the money to allow the SAHM to look after the kids, so he should have a say in how they are brought up? But of course the problem is that men (IME) don't really understand the ins and outs of e.g. BF and just want to go down the route that is easiest for them. (Sorry, this sounds a bit anti-men, but I have seen it a fair bit.)

I also wonder whether it is a vicious circle, women do more, so they know more, so they make the decisions, so men take a back seat, so men do less, so the relationship becomes more unequal to the point where the woman is doing all the child-related work and the man is the breadwinner.

It seems to me that men need to be more invested in these sorts of decisions, so that they take a more active role in family life. Not sure how you get there though.

Is it power or shared responsibility, though dittany?

Again, I suspect the answer to that will depend on the individuals concerned.