I've got quite a simple question that I just can't answer - why would a woman not be a feminist?

Lacuna seventeen

I did once ask about it (we were at talk on gender issues in fact :-) )

I said 'you know, you have a lot of feminist attitudes, I don't understand why you and your friends so much resist being labelled 'feminists', it's nothing to be ashamed of'

She said 'don't you get patriarchal with me'

Lady of the Manor, it is the sneering, judgemental tone of your post that I was referring to. You haven't engaged with what I have said at all, you've just taken it to the absolute extreme in order to mock it.

If you read my post again seth, you'll see that I said I have been sneered at by feminists in real life too, it's not just here that the problem lies.

I always post here with a genuine viewpoint and I get responses like those of lady of the manor. I can't engage with that at all and I find it really frustrating.

Writer I wouldn't take it personally. A lot of ideas are raised on this board, especially a thread like this and I often feel I want to start different conversations with different people but sometimes it just moves to quickly.

Sorry, stubbornhubby - didn't get the tone of the post

The stereotype of the angry, man-hating, ugly feminist is still live and kicking. And while it doesn't bother me - it says a lot more about those who think it than about feminists themselves - I would imagine it's a pretty tough battle for a teenage girl to fight. There is so much awful pressure on young women to conform - much more so than 20 years ago, I think. How old is she?

Writerofdreams, I can't believe you would not identify with feminism because of the way you feel you've been treated on a single internet chat board Feminism is quite a lot bigger than just the MN feminist topic, it seems really odd to base (even partially) your non-allegiance to an important philosophy on something so trivial.

I mean if feminism means women wanting to be equal, what would masculism mean? Would that be tolerable? As in wishing men to be equal?

actually it was a genuine question (tho it didn't seem like one): I actually have a teenage daughter who seems very reluctant to label herself 'feminist' .. and it bugs me.

I think because I don't like fighting. I think it begins in your immediate circle, with what you can control, and working on that. The word feminism seems wrong to me. As though it were saying women are better, more important, rather than wanting to be equal.

That's why I don't use the word. Of course I support equality of genders but at the same time I don't want to subscribe to some kind of army or political mentality because it's likely it will encompass elements I don't want to put my name to.

So I just prefer to get on with things and not tolerate sexism in my personal environment, where possible. I don't have time to worry about it.

Writer of Dreams- Oh yes, let us all thank men for considering what may benefit us when they were busy deciding on social structure.

Or

You could fight for the right for the boundaries to be broken and for women to make their own social structure. And, no, not because a man allows us.

Stubbornhubby, I was quoting peedoff. I don't think there are any unpleasant connotations to the word feminism. I'm very proud to call myself a feminist.

There are some deeply unhelpful generalisations attached to it, though.

I also don't identify with feminism because when I post on the feminism section I tend to get ignored because I'm not whole-heartedly agreeing with everyone. This post is a case in point.

I don't think I realised the need to be one until after I had chidren. Naively I did think we were winning up until that point.

I'm surprised that in 2011 women believe you can't be a feminist if you choose to get married and/or stay at home to look after your kids. No disrespect to the people who have said that above, I'm just surprised that the message hasn't permeated more that feminism is about choice and supporting each other.

Maybe the billboard isn't a bad idea...

Lacuna what are the unpleasant connotations? Are there really any? Are they really unpleasant?

Hear hear, Lacuna

But surely as long as intelligent women keep saying 'I'm not going to call myself a feminist because of all the unpleasant connotations of the word' - those connotations will remain, won't they?

You say yourself that they're hideous generalisations - and they are - so why would you want to bow to them?

You raise interesting points there stubbornhubby. I do think I suffer some cognitive dissonance around the issue of feminism if I'm honest. I do recognise that we live in a patriarchal society that in a lot of ways devalues me because I'm a woman, but many aspects of that patriarchal setup actually suit me and benefit me so I don't necessarily want it all to change. The problem is, feminism tends to be quite hard-line - the attitude is that all aspects of the patriarchal system must be challenged and changed. I can totally see why this is the case, but people have grown up with the patriarchal system, it's the system they have come to know and depend on, it's what they're comfortable with (men and women alike). Psychologically people need predictability and stability and asking them to challenge and change nearly all aspects of their society is too daunting. It just seems like all the things we've grown up with are being trashed (perhaps rightly so) and it's too much.

Oh, I'm not either. It's not fair to fight the unarmed.

It's unfortunate that 30 year old preconceptions exist when there is a section on MN that is almost entirely free from that stereotype. It's a bit lazy, isn't it? And hugely disrespectful to those who put themselves out there to fight for changes in the law and society to benefit women as a group, that all of us gain from.

I find it so frustrating that there are all these crappy assumptions built up around the idea of feminists. I'd really like to put massive posters up on billboards everywhere just saying: "Feminists - we want equality for women. You don't have to cut all your hair off, or wear dungarees, or hate men."

But I think it's important to define myself as a feminist whenever possible, just to challenge those assumptions.