I'm a feminist but...

If we're saying I'm a feminist but I'm not like the stereotypical depiction of feminists - where the stereotype is angry, man-hating, hairy-legged dungaree-wearers, then I think we should be fair in our stereptyping and say that a breast reduction is always "feminist" (as in, not done for men) because of course all men want all boobs to be bigger! :o

Surely a breast reduction could never be called anti-feminist SAF? Much better for your back (I'm thinking here that they are currently big and heavy to carry around).

I am a feminist but I don't like driving at all. I would always rather someone else drove (unless they were really bad).

I'm a feminist, but I don't want to work, I want to stay home with DCs.

God where do I start? I'm a feminist but I don't go out without (at least some) makeup, I shave my legs and armpits and pluck eyebrows etc. I flirt with men (I am single) and even have sex with men sometimes without feeling the slightest bit like I am betraying the sisterhood :o

I love baby animals and baby humans, and genuinely enjoy cleaning the bathroom (but not the kitchen! Ok?) and wear dresses all the time.

my friends have nothing but positive stories, right from the 1st consultation

one of them went swimming in a river when we went white water rafting 12 weeks after her op !

the same river that one of the blokes in our party had to be rescued from, because he got into difficulties

saf, my friends had theirs on the NHS

I like baking
I love perfume and buy beauty lotions and potions. And then I am amazed when they do not transform me into Angelina Jolie.
I like ironing, I find it therapeutic. Same with knitting.
I like dh to do things with lump hammers and roof felting and all that kind of business. And take out the bin on bin day.
I am quite fond of pink.

But when I read Marilyn French's The Womens' Room at the age of 15, there was no turning back. Dooooooomed...

swallowedAfly I know what you mean about plastic surgery (I have a scar over my boobs). You are double unhappy because you are unhappy about your boobs (which I bet are lovely ) and unhappy about feeling unhappy about it.

I think occassionally it is possible to unpick the patriarchy/capitalism/institutionalisation/etc.-influenced parts of yourself, but it takes a lot of honesty and self-awareness. I think they can be identified by a kind of uncomfortable feeling about them, like there's a sort of conflict going on.

An obvious example would be me shaving my legs and all the time I'm actually doing it, wishing I bloody didn't have to!

And I've listened to mothers who, after talking for nearly an hour about their experiences, being to realise that they are suffering with post-natal depression not because they're breastfeeding, but because they're trying to stop because everyone is telling them that the breastfeeding is causing the PND.

A less obvious example would be the fact that I went into nursing because (I now know) my family used to say 'ooh, you'd be such a good nurse!' and my mum was a nurse. I didn't work hard at my degree and, while I enjoyed it, I didn't love it, and didn't ever feel quite right about it. So I believe now that that wasn't really 'me', as it were...just the influenced bit of me.

I feel very strongly about this issue, actually, and, consequently, DH and I work really hard to try to minimise any influences on our children's personalities and likes/dislikes. We try hard not to say 'you'd be really good at...' or 'you really enjoy...' or to be overheard talking about them - we don't do a very good job of it, I have to say, but probably better than we would if we weren't trying not to IYSWIM. But I really want to create an environment where our children can grow into the people they were really meant to be IYSWIM.

if your breasts are physically uncomfortable, that is a medical and not a social scenario though, surely ?

I have 3 friends that have had reductions for chronic backache, pain in the breasts and the fact that their breasts were too physically big for their frame

'It's just I get a bit irritated when people totally deny the premise that the patriarchy has influenced some of what they like/do not like. Of course we can't unpick it, but denying it is wrong.'

Absolutely! And it comes up all the time on here wrt plastic surgery, waxing your fanjo etc, when people think we are saying that we, the feminists, are superior beings immune to patriarchal influences while everyone else is a passive dupe of the patriarchy. Whereas in fact what we are trying to say is yes it is a choice to shave your pubes but it is a choice made in a context and under certain cultural influences and yes we feminists are also making choices in a context.

this is quite handy - in future we will be able to point people back to this thread as proof that feminists are not exempting themselves from patriarchal influences.

And I agree with you, Seth!

It's just I get a bit irritated when people totally deny the premise that the patriarchy has influenced some of what they like/do not like. Of course we can't unpick it, but denying it is wrong.

My brother did this - he said it was extremely patronising to suggest that he wasn't his own person in terms of his likes and dislikes, and that his enjoyment of aggressive films might just be influenced by the society he's been brought up in. But it's very naive to think that you haven't been influenced by every single little thing that's touched your life in one way or another.

And it's not just patriarchy. Institutionalised schooling does it too...oh yes, not allowed to talk about HE on here, am I? ; and the idea of hierarchy; and capitalism; and, and, and...

I know very well I want a nice new shiny laptop because I'm constantly being told I do, by adverts, family, friends, tv programmes, etc. - not overtly, and not consciously. I also know that it's unlikely I would be so desperate for one if I were living in a society which didn't value expensive, electronic items.

Thankyou Porpoise

Flamingo, that definitely sounds more like what I meant than what I actually wrote. You are clearly better at putting the words in a coherent sentence and stuff.