Plans to allow small firms to negotiate parental (maternity) leave

I had it on the BBC online coverage here as well and didn't see anything. Also have googled and looked at their "key points" and it's not mentioned.

Looks like it was never a serious proposal? i must say I was surprised as I would have thought that it would go against the EU rules.

I sometimes wonder with this stuff if they put shocking stuff out in advance and then everyone is relieved when the real stuff is announced IYSWIM.

Interestingly they have only published about 6 of the "have your say" comments on the BBC live feed and 2 of them are to do with mat leave - so it's obviously something that lots of people were aware of - but no-one on teh BBC has said anything about those posts. Odd.

I didn't catch anything about this in the Budget.

Did I miss something? Or perhaps this was never a serious proposal?

Yes it would include schooling and NHS and pensions and everything.

But maybe not the stuff that people put into the economy which isn't direct tax.

It would be interesting to see the source of this oft-quoted stat. What it includes etc etc.

People contribute more to the economy than simply what they pay in taxes, the mere fact of their working and spending and contributing to pension schemes and all the rest of it keeps the whole thing chuntering along.

" In the UK, only 25% of the adult population are net contributors - 75% are net beneficiaries (though most of these do pay tax)."

Really??? That sounds very high. Does it include using state schools and the NHS?

I've realised I don't know exactly which laws apply, nor whether the current regulations all have the force of law.

I suppose what they need to do will depend on what actual changes they want to make. At the moment, all we've really heard is that it's an area that might be looked at. Absent proposals, it's difficult to know what to make of it. Still, if it's going to be in the Budget, we'll hear soon. But it might crop up at another time if there needs to be a change to other legislation.

I have just had a good google meditrina and I haven't found anything.

With changes like this can they just do them - and through the budget - without any need for consultation periods of anything? I don't really know how these things work TBH. I mean I know that some things can go through without being debated and that, but I'm surprised this is one of them IYSWIM.

Has anyone seen any discussion or kite-flying for the possible proposals on this?

It's not at all clear to me what the possible changes might be, so in turn impossible to take a view really. Though definitely one to keep an eye out for.

I also haven't been able to find any detail about how this reform will work. From what I can gather it simply takes us back to women being sacked on pregnancy - something that happened to my great-aunt in about 1940. That's progressive then

Just bumping this ahead of the announcement on Wednesday.

Just been reading a few articles and in the ones I have seen, it says that 20 weeks (or something like that) of mat leave are going to be made available to the (usually male) partner. Are firms also going to start negotiating with men when they employ them about what/if they will be taking this chunk of leave? They certainly ought to. But I have a funny feeling that it won't work out like that...

We run a small business - 3 employees, and have had a couple of maternity leaves in the past 5 years. Finding a replacement isn't normally hard, managing the SMP is fine (as other posters have mnetioned, you just need to claim the rebate). The tricky part is managing the respective rights and expectations of the absent mother adn the present temporary person.

I currentlyhave one person off with her 4 month old. We need to take on - right now- a part timer to expand our capacity in her area of expertise. I can't wait 5 months to do this. So i'll have to create this post, in almost certainty that my mat leave person will want to come back in a couple of months, also part time. At which point i either refuse her on the grounds that. There are now no part time hours available (don't want to do this as we like her, great worker, asset to the business), or get rid of new part- timer to create an opening (write off my rercruitment and training costs), or end the contract for her mat cover person (also a pity, she's v good) and end up with three part timers to achieve the same total hours and coverage. I know this isn't the fault of any of the individuals, or of the female gender as a whole, but it makes lots of tough calls for small businesses. Some of us really are trying our best to do the right thing for everyone in a tough recession!

What thaigreencurry said. 50% of this country's talented employees will no longer consider working for a small business. The bigots who moan disproportionately about the cost of ML and openly boast about how they discriminate against women will regret it when they find that the talent pool from which they have to recruit has shrunk by half and their current employees are leaving in their droves to somewhere that looks after them properly.

The idea seems to have taken hold that ML is too burdensome for companies in this country - that the risks are all on the side of the employer and unscrupulous women are taking advantage. This idea needs some serious challenging as it's wrong on every level. SMP is repaid in full by the State and companies are not obliged to pay any extra. Of course it's not easy to cover for any leave that an employee takes, but the same is true if they take time off sick or have other time away. At least the company isn't losing the employee permanently.

Where the law could do with tweaking is in the amount of notice that women are entitled to give. Happy to be instructed, but what's the benefit to women of not telling their employers that they don't plan to return? Assuming that their rights to SMP are protected (and to any other benefits that the employer has contracted) why should they not say this and allow the employer to recruit a permanent replacement? I think what annoys a lot of employers (and I know this is ajandjjmum's situation) is that the employee can be on mat leave for a year and then announce that they're not returning. I can't see a problem with asking women to announce their intentions before they leave and requiring them to commit to these. If they've said they'll take 6 months and come back when they say they will, the employer has even less excuse than they do now to discriminate against them.

But I'm 100% opposed to removing statutory maternity leave from any company. And this policy will treat women working for small companies as second class citizens.

Youllskimmer, yes you are correct. I pay 50% tax plus ss payment. I nearly had a fit when we moved here. But actually it works overall to pay more tax but get better services.

Portofino- Aren't Belgians taxed very heavily?
Is this how it's paid for?

If I remember correctly they pay over 50% income tax on a salary of ?30000 and isn't there a social security payment as well.

I think we could improve childcare etc here but it would have to come out of taxes.

that is one :( article

thaigreencurry - I think the issue that many small businesses are worrying about at the moment is surviving the recession - and praying that they survive until the economy starts to grow.

Steps like this will backfire against small businesses. The more you chip away at employees rights the more difficult it will be for small businesses to recruit high calibre staff. We won't always be in a recession and when the economy starts to grow the small businesses will be left behind.

swallowedAfly. They have childcare sewn up in Belgium. Wrap round care in provided from children aged from 2.5 - 12 using the school buildings.

So basically my dd's school opens at 7.30 am. There is a rota of non-teaching staff present to look after the children. School starts at 8.25. The "garderie" staff return at lunchtime for an hour and half and supervise food/play etc. They then cover the period between 3.05pm and 6pm, plus Wednesday afternoons. This costs me about 35 euros a month. It is also tax-deductible.

The commune has 3 state primary schools, so in the school holidays, they take it in turns to host the holiday club. The "garderie" staff from each of the schools cover this, with students as extra hands during the Summer holidays. This costs about 20 - 35 euros per week depending on whether a cooked lunch is offered. This is also tax-deductible.

It CAN be done.

Not force, no, but encourage, yes. I think it is the business of governments to preoccupy themselves with encouraging parents to bring children up in stable families with sufficient autonomous resources to meet their needs.

Bonsoir, women already save the tax payer millions by doing unpaid caring work.

It seems obvious to me that the more we can get women to do for free, the less it costs the state.