Why is promoting the SAHM choice a feminist issue?

I honestly can't see what you mean sakura men and women should pay for their children whether they live with them or not. Are you seriously suggesting that all men will not and all mothers will? I highly doubt that. Ofc there are mothers that wont take responsibility for their children and ofc there are fathers that don't take responsibility for their children. I have a name for them but I think it would be to strong for this forum.

ROFLMAO, oh those poor men, being forced to pay for their own children.

Omg, you're not a good example for men. I can't imagine single mothers (any mothers?) begrudging spending money on their own children.

Men and women both make these sacrifices. Even if they are working they obviously have to pay up for their children.

Yeah, that word sacrifice again.

Men aren't making the sacrifices are they. They don't end up poor as a result of bringing children into the world.

And when I say men I don't mean you. It's not all about you.

Am really off to bed this time.

That is why I said if you don't want to make sacrafices don't have them. The only thing I can see wrong atm is the fact that some parents can get away without paying maintenance for their children.

omg I've never seen Australia, but I know it's there.

On that note, I'm going to bed, I can't be sitting up having a pointless circular argument with you.

Good night.

That isn't proof that it is because it is undervalued. It is however proof that there are sacrifices you have to make when you decide to bring kids into the world.

The data which says women are poorer than men on average omg

Women who have been SAHMs are particularly much poorer, because their work of child raising hasn't been valued.

I'm sure I've posted that about twelfty hundred times now.

Many sahps will struggle regardless of the downturn.
Their choice?
And the same logic can be applied to lots of other unrelated issues.
Like why should childless adults pay taxes to educate someone elses children; or pay taxes to treat smokers and drinkers.

What data I would like to see this research and data that says that sahp is under valued because I have never seen it. I didn't say it was about me you did. I said in my experience I have never seen it happen. To any sahp and I certainly didn't devalue it when I wasn't a parent nor have I seen anyone else.

omg I don't care whether you feel undervalued or not. As I previously said, this discussion isn't all about you and what you feel. It's about how society as a whole values child rearing.

I am not aksing for SAHPs to be praised for bringing up their own kids, I'm arguing that that work should be equally valued as working in the cash economy.

Your experience as a SAHD, is completely different to the experience of a woman as a SAHM anyway. Men are treated differently from women. I suppose you're going to tell me next, that they're not adn we should stop discussing it because you don't think it's important, because you've never noticed being treated differntly, so all the data and research that's done on it is irrelevant.

Getting back to work will not be easy but that is because of the economic down turn and the fact that there are very few jobs. If there was no down turn I could certainly get back to work no problem. I obviously would be making as much money as I would had I not had children but that is the sacrafice I made to have children. Which I did not have to have. It was my choice.

Omg,
Are you planning to get back to work?

Will that be easy?

I think you need to read my posts herbex I don't feel under valued so why do you feel that I am under valued? What you are asking for is that sahp be praised for bring up their own kids. Which I find very stupid indeed I would understand if you were talking about the issue of people not paying child maintenance but you aren't. You are saying that people put work above sahp which isn't what I have witnessed. Why do I need recognition for bringing up my own kids? Yes this is very funny to me indeed not. This is a serious issue with you telling me that people under value me when they clearly don't. I will not even entertain the fact that you are trying to call me a liar. I just think it is down right childish. The only thing I can see that needs changed is maintenance dodging being criminal.

Right, so you don't think it should be discussed as a feminist issue omg.

But then, you don't think a lot of things which are feminist issues, should be recognised as feminist issues.

Because you're not a feminist.

But some of us here are, and we'll continue to discuss this from a feminist perspective.

Just read your last post.
I think you are completely missing the point.
Feminists do not devalue sahps. The recognize sahps are being treated unfairly and try to correct it.
So then you do agree with feminists? :)

And I also agree that none of these issues should be feminists. And there should be no feminism at all! All should be equally fairly treated.
And while that's not the case and no one else puts it on the agenda, then feminists have to...

omg I find your arguments ridiculous.

Feminists talk about SAHPing being under valued because it fucking well is under valued.

We are practically the only group in society, who have consistently argued that caring for children is socially necesssary work and you feel that we are insulting you for doing that socially necessary work? The only group who demand respect and recognition for that work is insulting you is it?

What the hell have you been reading? It certainly hasn't been my posts, or any of most of the feminists on this board. It seems to me that you are so hostile to feminism, that you read arguments into posts that aren't there.

Either that or you are just pretending to consistently miss the point for a larf. It's really tiresome.

That is what I am saying I have never been shown any less respect and neither has my mum or any other person I know for being a sahp so why make it out to be an issue that actually doesn't exist. The only issue I can see is having children isn't leagally binding.

As I said a good thing would be if they made child maintenance avoidance a criminal offence. Then you would see as many dead beat parents not supporting their children.

Some have the partners who can provide for them, others do not.
Should it be down to luck?
What is then the purpose of the society? That's just like life in the wild.
And I am not arguing for govt handouts as a simple solution. There are plenty of things that could be done, butall starts with first acknowledging there is an issue; and secondly treating sahps with respect - the same respect that full time workers get, nothing more.

You would think though that if sahp is devalued in society then I would have more respect for the parent that went out and worked. I don't think sahp is devalued that is what I am saying I don't think it should be a feminist issue and I keep seeing people on here putting down sahp on this forum constantly and sahm being told that they are not feminists etc for doing it. So really the only one that is devaluing sahp is feminists that say that type of thing.

If sahm are financially disadvantaged (and they are), many will not be able to provide for themselves, hence needing the support from children. (Well, they won't get it if childrenbecome sahps :))

You have close relations with your mum.that's very good, but not limited to sahms, so is irrelevant for the discussion.

Yes I do believe sahp should be promoted ofc I do however the way feminists talk about it as if it is under valued puts me down personally so excuse me if I find it hard not to take it personally. You were trying to put across about financial loss due to looking after your own kids and hwo you expect to be just as well off as the parent that was working. So really what you were talking about was personal wealth and not about getting money from the working parent to provide for the kids.

I didn't say I expected my children to look after me in old age I said that if you bring them up they will thank you when they get older and will always have respect for you. Which atm is what happens with my mum and me. I have a great respect for my mum if she calls me at 3 o'clock in the morning and asks me to come up and talk to her I do even though I know I will pay for it the next morning. When I was working I helped my mum out financially whenever I could. When she needs something fixed in her house I do it without a second thought. I even help her make difficult decisions when she needs me to. I call her when I am not up for a few days just to ask her how she is doing. This is the kind of respect I am sure my kids will give me when they grow up.

Oh fgs this isn't all about you omg. Or me. I'm not interested in the personal details of your life and you know nothing about the personal details of my life.

Don't start getting shirty with me for insulting you, because I will talk to you in the same tone as you talk to me. If you don't want me to insult you, then please don't insult me. I merely echoed your formulation about posts stinking and yes, I do think the tone of your posts are self righteous. Finding fault with single parents being rich enough to enjoy themselves. FGS.

This isn't a thread about how we organise our domestic circumstances. It's a thread about why it is a feminist issue to promote SAHP-ing. That's what I'm trying to discuss here, I have no idea what the point is that you are making. Do you think it is a valid feminist stance to promote SAHP-ing as a valid choice or not? I do.