Really? Is it just me who doesn't get the Daniel Craig drag thing?

Well, I thought the video was bollocks. Voiceover was ok. Visuals were: a famous bloke who has played James Bond in a suit and then a frock.

What like become a feminist for example?

Oooh that's a good idea.

I suspect that some people on here can recommend some good starting points for you

My apologies SQ, it was FlamingoBingo that asked me if it was acceptable yada yada yada..

Worldwide is totally different to the UK and other modern Western states.

I don't have the time now (kids/school), but a good start would be to look at what has been done to try and improve things and why in general it hasn't worked.

What are your views on rape? What do you think needs to be done to improve the situation worldwide?

I don't think it was me who asked you if the conviction rate was acceptable.

This is what I said:

"However I open the newspapers and read about girls schools being burnt in Pakistan, about girls and women being sold into the sex trade around the world, about rape being used as a weapon of war, about women being denied basic rights in some countries, and closer to home, about women being raped and abused and finding that there is no chance of justice, and so on and so on and so on and it makes me ANGRY and I want to talk about it to see what can be done. I don't understand what bitterness has to do with any of that."

What is your response? Why do you think that feminism is not needed when this is the situation that we have in the world? What does any of that have to do with bitterness?

SQ, you didn't talk about rape, you asked me if I thought it was acceptable blah blah blah with the obvious inference etc.

Why are you so keen to trivialise rape like that ?

streetwise on the other thread you talk about "devaluing" rape. Who on earth "values" rape in the first place?

What are your views on rape then?

judging by his/her posts, I think StreetWiseHotMum has joined Mumsnet specially to wind people up.

So feminists aren't allowed to talk about rape because it's a red herring (whatever that means)

And we aren't allowed to talk about the DC video for international women's day because it is trivial (have you listened to the voiceover?)

What are we allowed to talk about then? (Answer = nothing we are to shut up and get back to the kitchen )

'men having it all and you want some'?

i thought women could have it all? you know, the full time job, the 24/7 childcare, the housework, whilst all men had was the job? that's the problem, sw. i want the men to have it all. and the women.

tch.

almondlatte I think there are a few misunderstandings!

When I said we were cosseted I meant here on the feminist section in MN - most of the people who post here share similar views ie self-identify as feminists and so the conversation is from that starting point.

The comments under the video clip - some are pretty horrible and some are pretty random and some are just silly - I was trying to say that here in the Mn feminist section we are fairly protected from people like that (very few people come in here and outright say "you're a bunch of dykes" which is one of teh comments under the video) and we need to remember that what feels normal and sane in this section is much of the time completely separate to what is going on in the mainstream outside IYSWIM.

I wasn't trying to be aggressive and I'm sorry if I came off that way. I didn't understand what you meant with your initial and I think it has come from that.

Yes, I'm sure you do. Look here:

www.mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights/1166130-International-Womens-Day-how-can-we-make-the-world-more-equal/AllOnOnePage#24265935

Yet more trivialisation.

It makes my blood boil

almond - i got massively flamed for misuse of the 'hmm' emoticon too i thought it was just a 'hmm' face. (and i 'hmm' a lot). but it is read as 'you're talking bolleaux' on here, so i've revised my usage. it's a common mistake, but you (i) generally only make it once...

i know quite a few mtf trans, (none of them identify with the feminist lobby at all, afaik) and it is more the 'how to' industry that i object to. essentially businesses set up to transform and create a 'woman' by the addition of clothing, make-up, voice classes, movement classes. it's fascinating. the point that society dictates that a woman acts and looks a certain way is nowhere more visible. complete reinforcement of a totally artificially contructed gender binary.

in my head (and i'm aware this is a pretty utopian vision lol) no-one would identify as trans in the future, because there wouldn't be any need. society would be accepting of everyone wherever they found themselves on the gender continuum, whatever they wanted to wear, however they wanted to walk or speak, whether they chose to paint their faces or not. intersex conditions would at least be less traumatic as a result. and there would be no reason to specify gender on most forms. why does it matter? either i am an engineer or i am not. either i wish to claim for parental leave, or i do not.

still haven't checked out daniel craig, though.

but i am going on a hunt for trans- feminists later, though.

And I mean that in its truest sense.

Do you think it's acceptable that only 5% of reported rapes result in a conviction? There is nothing like such a shit conviction rate for any other crime. Why? Because women are not important in society - it is more important that a tiny number of men don't have their lives turned upside down by a false rape allegation than that women don't have their entire lives, all future relationships, their health, physical and emotional well-being destroyed by being raped

I'm sorry but that is so typical...start to see your own arguement re: Men having it all and you want some unravel so you throw out the rape herring. To ask that question as you have is so fucking stupid and so fucking crass. It devalues, in fact it does more than devalue, it trivialises rape, and that is abhorent.

Oh and Adair I meant to add that someone had said they had shown the advert that the op posted to their daughter. I think I posted it because I think that would be a useful discussion with daughters - who live in the UK.

I do find some posts on this thread quite aggressive but again it could well be my cultural misunderstanding of the UK.

I find the Dove ad powerful but yes it is an advert, meant to promote their products. But I think it does show how warped the whole cosmetic / celebrity / role stereotypes are pervasive - hence the younger women at the end seeing just the end result of the billboard. It demonstrates the power of advertising which I find scary.

To be honest I am not from the UK, although I live here now and am very very grateful to be living here now - perhaps it is my different cultural understanding.

I certainly have not lived a cosseted life, but I did not find Sardine's comments to be friendly at all, but then I still find swearing offensive and obviously I have misinterpreted the smileys. Anyhow I do not want to take this debate off course any further and do not want to part of the cross fire - so to speak.

I feel the same way Adair I am interested in what people have to say, but am not as well informed or articulate as they are and I worry about being misconstrued and/or causing offence. I'm still very much at the reading and learning stage.
I enjoy reading your thoughts Lenin (and others of course) and hope you do carry on, although I appreciate that you may not want to.

The comments are as you would expect, I guess?

We are cosseted here, easy to forget how the outside sees all of this.

amondlatte my post was supposed to be friendly advice! It wasn't meant to be a threat! on MN is quite an aggressive emoticon - as I explained - and if you are using it wrongly then you are going to get a response to your posts which is not right - as you are trying to say "I'm thinking" but everyone looking at it will take it an entirely different way.