International Women's Day: how can we make the world more equal?

When itunes has as many films/media to download as it does stuff that appeals to the guys!? :)

-when women can go out on their own after dark without giving it a second thought.

As others have said access to education and healthcare no matter where a girl is growing up. would like to see an end to female circumcision.

I've just seen Hillary Clinton on SKY talking about this. She took a global view: the need to ensure all women can access health care, can access education, and have the right to work outside the home if they wish.

when people don't look at fathers pushing his DC in a buggy/on his own with DC and go "aaaahhhhh" as if its something a)really unusual and b)really sweet

no one bats an eyelid at the mums pushing buggies, no, we just get ignored and people walking into us

In my profession I already have the upper hand.

Play the game and the world is your oyster.

-when there are no "honour killings".

I think there's too much dichotomy between the raising your family,(Working inside the home), and
working outside the home camps.

I think one sign of developing equality will indeed be less division between these two "sides."

We have to value ourselves and one another whatever we are doing !

And my broader point that we need to embrace the diversity of the experience of being female.

There is more than one way to live as a woman, just like there is more than one way to be a man !

Hence my comment that increasing equality will bring increasing freedom to be "authentically ourselves"

I think as we grow in confidence we will be less critical of one another too

But I also think that saying women want to be home and care and clean and don't want to be ambitious and earn money and gain power is dreadful for those women who do want the latter. I want it to be not noteworthy that I might prefer plying my trade to working the washing machine.

If one year 100% of the new partners at a big accountancy firm were female for example and non men or 60% of boards had 70% women , it would be great if that were not noteworthy because it was simply random.

Sure, here I am to clarify

It was a simple but fundamental point I was making ( which I do think addresses the OP's question )

Makescakes has interpreted my post fine. But my point is broader than her reading of it too, and I didn't make any reference to working inside or outside the home. (What sort of cake can I make you to thank you for your support ?)

Just that I feel in pursuing equality women have sometimes felt they needed to conform themselves to a man shaped square peg to fit into all those square holes ( such as the working hours of the boardroom or parliament, the image of a headteacher or vicar etc. etc. )

Time to change the holes to round ones that we will fit more easily, with our more fluid and flexible round pegs !

Hope that makes sense ( I like a good analogy !) & contributes positively to the discussion

Yes, in Sweden, maternity leave as it is called in the UK is called parental leave in Sweden and it can be shared equally between the partners.

when you see female sport reported on regularly in the national newspapers - rather than the sporadic article here and there.

when you hear Radio 4 reporting on more female sport rather than listenting to the men's cricket result, the men's football result, the men's racing result..........

victoriascrumptious - I thought in Sweden it was that the parental leave was allocated to the couple and it was up to them how they divided it. Does anybody here know?

And yes, I think we're agreeing on the issue itself, but just read jugglingjo's post differently - Jo - could you come back and clarify please?

For now I count myself fortunate to have a husband who values my work, paid and unpaid and hope to bring up our children the same way when we have them.

I also agree with the poster about ditching derogatory comments like 'man flu'. I found it intensely annoying when Dh had swine flu and was really ill that everyone kept pulling this face and saying in a faux-sympathetic way 'oh, has he got man flu?'. It was not only demeaning to his very real illness, but also to the immense amount of work it took looking after him (not easy to get a swooning 6'2" athlete to the bathroom when you're a dumpy 5'4", not to mention the sodden sheet changing every 2 hours).

Gosh, I'm feeling grouchy today. better get back to work :-)

--When the sports pages of a newspaper actually are the sports pages, not the men's football pages.

Trivial I know, but it's just a mirror of how invisible women are in the media and somehow seems to underline the way women's bodies are never seen in anything other than a sexualised context.

Last but one post should read "no you should not be made to feel inferior"

We'd be able to get rid of a lot of issues by following the Swedish model and spitting maternity leave down the middle with both sexes being forced to take a 50/50 share in it. There would be no arguments about women "wanting it all" (herbex) and no more talk about women's lack of "hard work and dedication"

"I think jugglingjo was saying that that is when we would have equality. That we shouldn't have to be the same as men to be equal as a human being. If I feel that I am better at caring and housework and doing 'women's' work then I shouldn't be made to feel like I'm letting the side down or that I am inferior. Likewise if a man wanted to do that then he shouldn;t be made to feel less than either. We all have different strengths and we should be allowed to play to them without feeling like more or less of a 'person' or a citizen."

Yes I appreciate that, but we're not equal are we?. Caring and housework are seen as inferior and always will be until men walk in our shoes. No you should be made to feel inferior but that is how a large proportion of the world sees you as you yourself allude. We are not arguing from different perspectives as such you are saying the exact same thing as me.

The only difference I can see is that you say 'when' this happens. I don't think it's going to happen in the next thousand years. I'm not sure whether JugglingJo is answering the OP's question

Q:"How can we make the world more equal?"
A: 'By promoting caring and housework as being on the same footing as paid work'

Or suggesting that liberal feminism (in this case)is no longer needed because all we need to do now is 'be authentically ourselves'

Maybe I have the wrong end of the stick. Not unusual for me

Just wanted to say that it is not about making everyone 'equal' as everyone is unique. It is about giving everyone equal opportunities.

Lucy I think we need to organise the whole of the workplace so that there is much more flexibility for everyone and both men and women who want the high flying thing can have it and those who don't want it can chug along happily earning less money without responsibility. Also that people can have ebbs and flows as they do in other areas of their lives - career breaks, taking a few years out occasionally to do other stuff and then bringing those experiences back into the marketplace... our work set up is so limited and is wasting the potential of so many of us - not jsut women, men who don't fit the alpha male psycho template as well - it is ludicrous. We need to stop thinking that the way we have organised the workplace at the moment, is the norm and that we can be much more creative about using everyone's potential at the time when it is most valuable to society and them, to use it. But I'm rambling now...

Yes HerBeX - I expect a society which enables me to earn my living and function as a Mother. I expect a society where, if I choose to do that, then I can.

We have to find a balance, but I find (with a lot of the women I work with), they want it all, without realising that you actually have to work for it. High pay, regular promotions, but flexible hours, time off whenever the kids are ill, immediate right to annual leave when the kids are on holidays etc. There has to be a balance for both men and women, but you have to put the work in and not complain that women don't get promotion or end up in the Board Room without realising that it comes with hard work and dedication.

We also assume that all women want this - but that is not the case. Within my old team, there were 2 men and 8 women. The 2 men and 1 of the women were very focused on their career and actively seeked out promotions. The other 7 women were not bothered. One even took a step down to an Admin role when she had her first child. We can't fight a battle for people who do not always want it.

On the up-side, our Legal Director took 2 days leave last week because his kids had a bug and he looked after them. More men should take a leaf out of his book.

that should have been 'less than' in inverted commas

"Every woman can be authentically herself and still be seen as equal to any man"

"I've been authentically myself for many years now. It doesn't seem to be working. Can you explain how you have achieved this equality? I'd be interested to know"

I think jugglingjo was saying that that is when we would have equality. That we shouldn't have to be the same as men to be equal as a human being. If I feel that I am better at caring and housework and doing 'women's' work then I shouldn't be made to feel like I'm letting the side down or that I am inferior. Likewise if a man wanted to do that then he shouldn;t be made to feel less than either. We all have different strengths and we should be allowed to play to them without feeling like more or less of a 'person' or a citizen.

Due to my ill-health I have only recently gone back to work, so my husband earns far more than I do, plus which he is educated to a far higher level, but he and I have a healthy respect for each other and I feel more equal in my marriage than I do in the public sphere. It would be nice if society as a whole could have the same respect for me that my husband has, but it doesn't. I feel like I have to justify myself for not earning as much, working as many hours, for the fact that (heaven forfend) I get satisfaction out of cooking and doing the ironing.

We will be equal when any contribution made is seen as a contribution to society, whether we receive pay for it or not, and whichever sex is doing it.

I benefit from part-time hours (not a lot of flexibility mind you) and would love my husband to have the same. He would too! We are prevented from this partly by finances, as he earns a lot more per hour than I do, and partly I think by employers expectations - they do not look well on men working part-time.

"We expect to be equal in the Board Room, but want part time and flexible hours"

In other words, we expect a society which enables us to earn our living AND function as mothers.

At the moment the board room is set up so that only those who have no caring responsibilities can function. We want EVERYONE to be able to function as workers without giving up their right to parent their children.

That is not unreasonable. It is made to seem unreasonable because we are so used to accepting the 1950's out of date version of how life is - if you want to compete in the boardrooom, you have to have a servant or wife at home, so that you can opt out of your parenting role.

Well no parent, male or female, should have the option ot opt out of parenting and work should be structured around the needs of families, not the other way round.

Why do you say that vs?

Why should the fact that what we do which should be our biggest strength - bear and nurture the human race - be the one thing which makes us weak?

Isn't that something to do with how we have responded to the ability of one half of the human race to give life, rather than the fact that we give life per se?

Shouldn't we be trying to design a society where bearing and nurturing children is valued and celebrated, rather than used as an excuse to oppress those who do it?