Knickers are an 'important part of women's lives'?

Notenoughsocks - my very basic understanding of it, as I don't really recall a long conversation about it more snippets here and there, is that academic feminism these days talks more about 'gender' rather than 'women'. So it's an analysis of gender, which obscures the fact that the discrimination is against women. At my uni we now have a gender network, rather than a women's network. And unis teach gender studies rather than women's studies. It obscures women as being the point of the study. I'm not sure I've explained that well, as I'm not that articulate about it myself.

I also think there's more to it than that, but that was what I was referring to.

I once went to my gender network. The female speaker finished, and before the female chair could step in to ask whether there were any questions from the audience, the only man in the room launched into his questions. Such an utter lack of self awareness.

Dittany/Aliceworld - what is this 'feminism in the academy thing' you are muttering about?

Hi, yes there are some pics on our new Facebook page if you are part of that network, and I will be putting more on the carnival website as soon as I can.

But you're right that many of the knickers were 'pretty', which was strange and a tad disappointing for me as this wasn't my memory of the first knicker workshop when I was introduced to the idea - short review here: tinyurl.com/6gple3n.

I guess that's the nature of some community art - it can be a representation of people's overt ideas and behaviour, and not always a more radical interpretation of how people live -- that interaction between 'community' and 'art' can be tricky indeed, especially for observers. Having said that, my experience of 'doing' community art is that it can make a huge difference to your way of thinking.

And some knickers were definitely big and/or baggy and bought for the bloody times (mine, for instance!).

myxd - thanks for posting!

Can I ask if there are any photos of the finished bunting? It did look like not a real representation of women's knickers. Like Elephants said, there were no washed out, grey knickers or maternity knickers, or the big ones you buy for after you give birth. They were all very pretty, the ones they showed on the video.

Thanks vm for this feedback AliceWorld.

Alongside the sliding scale we did have a 'sharing feminist funds' system (people donated money, those who couldn't afford the costs emailed and asked for an amount that would make a difference to enable them to attend). Many participated in this, but if some didn't notice this, it clearly wasn't completely successful, so this is useful info for next time.

myxd - thanks for posting. I would have been interested in coming but found it too expensive. The sliding scale thing was not wide enough imo, for the weekend it started at £50. That's not something a low earner can afford. tbh I didn't then look much further as to what was on after that.

Hi, I'm Ann Kaloski, one of the organisers of a carnival of feminist cultural activism (and named earlier in this thread), and I?ve read this discussion with interest.

The knicker bunting does seem a bit silly at first, I agree, but through talking with the artist, Julia Triston, I became convinced of the power of focussing on an item usually seen as either mundane or overly sexual. Plus it?s worth remembering that much of the power of this work comes from the stories sent in with the knickers (of illness, body size, first love and so on). And many of the knickers are quite raggy!

As for the carnival, I?m sorry some people thought the content was boring ? be happy to discuss here or elsewhere what you?d be interested in for a carnival of feminist cultural activism 2?

Well women's lives are so very trivial, just like women, that it makes perfect sense for knickers to be an important part of their lives.

When we visited Washington DC a few years ago there had been some event (I presume to do with breast cancer but it might have been something entirely different, presumably with a female bent) which involved bras. They stretched all the way down the ornamental pond from Lincoln's temple to Washington's obelisk, and really did come in all sorts of shapes and sizes and styles. My children were fascinated (although really they wanted to paddle in the pond).

Not sure my pants say anything much about me, as they are standard M&S knickers chosen purely for comfort. They really aren't a big part of my life - if someone told me that their knickers were an important part of their life I'd probably think that they were rather odd, not that they were a feminist activist.

Me too Yuno [blush[] :o

I agree with SQ - knicker bunting, why not? It's pretty and different and says something about the people whose things made it. A bit like a patchwork quilt really. But feminist? Not specially! More like "yippee, knickers!". It's more a burlesque type alleged feminism really.

Plus, all those knickers were very naice weren't they? Nothing with holes in, faded black with dodgy elastic and maybe a washed-out bloodstain? Bit too real, that.

"it is about celebrating women and the pants we come in"

It's stereotyping to say men wear boxers and women wear frilly knickers yes but I don't think it's sexist or bad really, it's light hearted and to some even humorous.

Watched the piece in the OP

For me - as a piece of art - OK fine. As some kind of feminist statement - what? What does it mean? Why? Nope sorry.

Knicker bunting is clearly pants . . .

(sorry, childish, but irresistable).

Like Dittany said above, smacks of someone exploiting the whole supposed titillation (sp?) of knickers to some get media coverage.

Well, I know womens' underwear has been sexualised but in this context, it isn't about sex but it is about celebrating women and the pants we come in.

thanks for this thread, I was feeling guilty about not having gone to the Carnival of Feminist Cultural Activism thingy on the Thursday but there was nothing that appealed.
academic feminism is just not very inspiring IMO.

I'm not referring to the Dove ads with beautiful-yet-ordinary women, but specifically to the one showing a wrinkly, sun-aged, elderly lady smilng happily. Yes, of course all Dove ads are commercially-driven by the purpose of getting us to buy products that will enhance our beauty, but (a) at least the women are more realistic than usual, and (b) that particular ad truly does show diversity and makes no pretence that using Dove will make you look like a 16yo photoshopped anorexic model.

How Dove select their models.

okay I've had a think and here is what I have come up with

1. It has quite clearly been photoshopped (sp), so so much for 'real' women.

2)the 'real' women are put on the screen to have their physical attractiveness judged and talked about while promoting Dove products

and

3)Dove is still emphasising being beautiful, the whole champaign is aimed at being beautiful. the goal-posts of beauty may have been moved slightly but we are STILL expected to strive towards it.