Men in a van

I hope you're okay, Alpha. A similar thing happened to me yesterday when I was walking through the supermarket carpark; two men in their early twenties rolled down their window and shouted, "HOT!" I ignored them, didn't even glance at them, and they were furious and starting screaming "OI we're talking to you! Don't fucking ignore us you whore!" and then shouted that I was a "stuck up bitch". I didn't respond at all, just kept walking, and they stopped their car by the doors and yelled, "When you walk past we're going to rape you!" The security guard at the door called out to me, "Don't worry about it love, it's just a bit of banter because you look lovely. Just take it as a compliment," and didn't do anything at all. How is 'we're going to rape you' a compliment? That sort of thing is so upsetting.

You'll forget this in a week or so, they will still be tossers. So you win,

That's a rather defeatist attitude glamour.

You may not mind when men do this, but it starts for females in the UK from about age 12, it's just not OK. I don't want my girls to have obsceintites shouted at them when they're walking to school as I remember happening to me, I don't want them to be followed or flashed at or initimidated or worse.

Saying that women should shut up and put up with sexual harrassment isn't ever going to get us anywhere is it.

no i dont feel like i have missed the point i understand how awful that must have been for her and i would be just as upset to shout something like that when she was with her children is vile!

but all i was saying was that the wolf whistles and the ''alright love'' comment dosent bother me one little bit thats all.

and i also dont think that these men go home and speak to their wives like that at all!!

they were just showing off to each other and acting like idiots. i personally wouldnt read too much into it and star thinking that all these men hate women and have deep rooted problems they were just a bunch of dicks and theres not a lot you can do about it now really is there

OP - take a look at The UK Anti Street Harrassment Campaign.

And then of course you have a problem. If people hate in a BNP style or hold an anti-gay march then it's something to get your teeth into and fight.

If people simply don't care, then where do you even start?

The MRAs and a lot of other people as well think that women should simply shut up, accept their lot and get on with it. Where do we even start?

Sorry for multiple posts. And the gloom, having a bad day!

When these men are actually confronted with the real consequences of their actions - they get really affronted too. It genuinely hasn't occurred to them that they are doing anything wrong, the reaction when it is pointed out that what they are doing can do serious harm, is met with confusion and then denial and affrontery.

I mean I'm not saying that the men who do this would actually torture and kill someone (for the benefit of any MRAs lurking!). But the absolute indifference to the effect their actions have on the victim, its all fair game as long as they're amused, is the same sort of idea. The thing that it doesn't matter what the reaction is - they genuinely just don't care if it's anger or terror or tears - and the fact that the reaction is funny whatever it is (scaring the shit out of someone or really upsetting them is a right laugh) - shows that they don't actually see their victims as of any importance whatsoever.

Sardine, you are totally right.

And that is worse than hating, isn't it?

That contempt. You're nothing. You don't matter. You're the ant under the magnifying glass.

Yes indifference. A sort of callous cruelty.

A lot of the low level sexual assault comes from there I think.

What happens to a spider having its legs pulled off if it turns around and bites its tormenter?

sardine the spider analogy is great, that has made it really clear for me. i totally see what you mean.

Yes that makes sense.

I suppose it's not so much active hatred, just a dehumanised indifference.

But I'm not sure - I suspect that if she'd yelled back, the van had been stopped at a light, she'd gone over and told them they were all fat bastards, she had them on her i phone and would upload them to holler back or report them to the police, a level of bile would have come her way, which would have made the original comments pale into insignificance.

It's hatred in the sense that although on an individual level they're not important, to these men women as a group are a useful target to promote bonding with their mates. And if that target steps out of the box they've put her in and behaves differently to what they find acceptable, it's surprising how indiffernce can turn into the most savage fury.

I see it differently somehow. I don't think they hate women because that indicates some level of, erm, equalness? Understanding? You have to know someone to hate them, you have to see them as a threat or something. Not sure how I'm putting this.

Like I don't like spiders but I don't bother to hate them, because they're just spiders, they don't matter.

Like people who pull the legs off spiders do it because they're interested, to see how they will react, it's funny to watch it squirm. But the spider doesn't matter at all, if it is in pain that is just sort of totally irrelevant because they are so lowly.

I honestly think that a lot of this sort of behaviour comes from the same place. That group of men want to make a woman react, they find it funny. Whether that reaction is anger, or fear, or tears, or whatever, it doesn't matter. It's all funny. Which woman gets picked on is irrelevant, it's just whichever one happens to be there. And she doesn't matter at all, the whole point of it is the men's amusement, she doesn't really sort of count for anything, she's just a female for sport.

Sorry that's a ramble but I really think that's where a lot of this comes from. I think most of them don't even consider the effect it might have because they simply don't care.

I think it goes beyond superiority into really unpleasant violent sexual territory. :( I can imagine men like this going home, being really unpleasant to their wives and then locking themselves away somewhere with truly deviant porn.

i agree with HerBeX. there are men who hate women and to them that is how it should be, they dont see that it is wrong. they have been raised with this sense of male superiority and entitlement to abuse what they perceive as this superiority,

alphamummy that's awful, what fucking wankers.

Don't know what else to say really

We need to stop being in denial about the appalling level of mysogyny there is out there.

Some men really, really hate us. It's not nice to contemplate, but forewarned is forearmed.

They are woman haters, of course they are.

Why else would they shout hate-speech at a woman?

Do we think that people who shout racist hate - speech at black people, aren't racist?

eugh!! that is disgusting!!

i am really very tempted to post a request on FB asking anyone who does this to try and explain why they do it and how it makes them feel when they do it but i fear i would only be inviting an influx of rude messages from disgusting people. still it would be a good method of finding out who i shouldn't have as a 'friend' on FB.

Glamour I think you've missed the point hat the op felt humiliated, whatever she had shouted back she's unlikely to have been able to humiliate them. And she had her children with her.

Sometimes these incidents are worse than they sound if you're there iyswim? I was walking down the street near uni when I was 19 and I remember I was having a nice day and feeling really good and a lorry driver tooted his horn and made a cunnilingus sign at me - really graphic using both hands and his tongue. He was a middle aged bloke. It made me feel really sick and humiliated and angry. It wasn't a big deal maybe but I've always remembered it even though some much worse things have happened to me. I think it's maybe because I felt it expressed so much hatred.

i dont think a "whistle and all right love" is acceptable either. is low intrusion but still unwarranted and unnecessary,usually sexual in connotation. so no i dont see that comment as acceptable banter.at all

i do wonder how the all right love and whistle crew would feel if they saw someone do that do their partner/sister/mum. probably not chuffed

it isnt a cheerie salutation

dont think they are necessarily women haters,was rude and disgusting,particularly in front of children. However,this doesnt men all men are like this. not all men engage in such boorish behaviours. is outrageous that a woman cannot be out and about with being subjected to disgusting derogatory comments