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Original poster

Lack of convictions for RAPE...I really want to do something about this, if possible

142 replies

InmaculadaConcepcion · 03/03/2011 12:57

Having just read about the DM story concerning the man acquitted of rape because he was "too drunk" and the subsequent horrendous account of a poster's own failed attempt to get justice for her rape on the same thread I am spitting with rage.

I want to do something positive. I have a baby daughter and I don't think I can be comfortable with myself if I don't make some attempt to fight for justice for rape victims and send out a message that RAPE IS A SERIOUS CRIME AND SHOULD BE TREATED AS SUCH.

I have two thoughts so far about this:

  1. Set up a campaigning blog reproducing press accounts of rape cases and (where no press reports exist) publishing rape survivors' own accounts.

and

  1. Set up a charity specifically to raise funds to assist rape survivors to pursue civil cases against their attackers.

These are just kernels of ideas at the moment, but I would welcome any suggestions about how I could make this work.

OP posts:
ElephantsAndMiasmas · 04/03/2011 14:18

oooh just marking place as am at work but your ideas both sound absolutely brilliant. It wasn't me who bought the domain though, can't recall who it was - Proles maybe? or HerBe? or TBE?

Original poster
InmaculadaConcepcion · 04/03/2011 14:16

I tend to agree about consent.

So, according to the Gap Or Chasm study, it's the police and prosecutors that need targeting in some way.

(Yes to general education, though...)

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scurryfunge · 04/03/2011 14:07

I am not sure about concentrating on the issue of consent. Men know when people are consenting and by questioning how to get that message across suggests there could be misinterpretations (thus passing the buck back to the victim). Rapists do not care about consent and can be reckless as to whether consent has been given.

It is down to how the first report to police is handled more than anything and that totally shapes any investigation.

Unrulysun · 04/03/2011 13:58

I wonder whether the best route into education might be through the Citizenship curriculum? We could run training for teachers and/or senior leaders? Better that than some of the frankly pretty bloody awful TIE approaches to ishoos.

Fwiw I think this is something action groups could do FAR better. I remember being shocked at how little Stonewall had to offer for e.g.

LeninGrad · 04/03/2011 13:55

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Original poster
InmaculadaConcepcion · 04/03/2011 13:45

"Are you sure you want this...?" or some kind of gentle check by the man, perhaps garlic? Some kind of awareness raising about tactful ways of ensuring consent has been given?

Very interesting info about the SOA, thanks...

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LeninGrad · 04/03/2011 13:19

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garlicbutter · 04/03/2011 12:59

I think reported rapes have been increasing since the Sexual Offences Act 2003, which broadened the definition of rape and clarified the consent threshold. Police forces started to institute specialist rape handling policies and trained examiners from around 2007 onwards. This both increased the number of crimes that can be called rape and public confidence in the police wrt rape.

The unique problem with rape is the issue of mens rea. For a defendant to be guilty of a crime, there must be sufficient evidence of actus reus - that the act was committed - and of mens rea, which means there was guilty intent. For example, you would not be found guilty of trespass if you couldn't have known the property on which you trespassed was private.

In most crimes, mens rea is taken as read but it cannot be so in the majority of rape cases. This is because rape is only a crime when it's done without consent. In a 'normal' crime like vehicle theft, say, you are unlikely to have given a stranger permission to take your car and drive it away so guilty intent is obvious. The majority of sex is consensua,l which is why mens rea takes on so much greater importance in sex-related crimes.

In rape, proof of mens rea used to depend on evidence of a struggle. Since the 2003 Act ratified the consent boundary, rape is a crime when the guilty party knew he did not have consent. This is unique. It's also recent, so I feel the critical weight of any campaign should be put behind the importance of consent to penile penetration. This is still an uncomfortable issue for many people - not only men ranting pointlessly about "having to get it in writing", but also women who feel it's unfeminine to say "Yes".

As long as women and men believe there is such a thing as implicit consent, mens rea remains difficult to prove and easy to deny.

Some people might be interested to read the CPS policy on rape.

Original poster
InmaculadaConcepcion · 04/03/2011 11:56

Good idea, Unrulysun, yes. Definitely.

I don't have any knowledge of rape conviction stats in comparable countries - are there European states doing this significantly better than us?

OP posts:
Unrulysun · 04/03/2011 11:38

I think blog first then use this to a. Get a foothold in education and b. Fundraise.

Katemumsnet is going to talk to MEPs could she raise this?

LeninGrad · 04/03/2011 11:07

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Prolesworth · 04/03/2011 11:05

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dittany · 04/03/2011 11:03

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LeninGrad · 04/03/2011 10:56

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Original poster
InmaculadaConcepcion · 04/03/2011 08:56

Thanks for the link, Prolesworth, I'll start doing some homework with that one.

Likewise your suggestion, dittany.

My feeling is the campaign should probably be fairly narrowly focused, simply because a straightforward message is easier to push.

I totally agree that more needs to be done on myth debunking, education in schools, general awareness among the wider population etc. but as other posters have mentioned, there are already various campaign groups working towards this (and obviously, we can all add our support to them in any way we can).

SO

Do we push for PROCEDURAL CHANGE in rape trials?

using:

A campaigning blog to collect examples of trials going awry

Publishing relevant stats

OR

Do we try and focus on education of young people etc.?
(which is a longer term project in terms of results)

AND/OR

Plug and publicise the possibility of rape survivors pursuing civil cases for redress etc. where they didn't get it in the criminal court?
With the idea of trying to start a fund and recruiting sympathetic lawyers, student barristers wanting experience etc. etc....

I could get a blog started very quickly, of course. The civil cases aspect would obviously take longer, but a start could be made....

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dittany · 03/03/2011 21:53

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Prolesworth · 03/03/2011 21:53

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LeninGrad · 03/03/2011 21:44

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Prolesworth · 03/03/2011 21:42

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LeninGrad · 03/03/2011 21:31

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Unrulysun · 03/03/2011 21:29

I think we could start an active current group/charity and do things on several fronts. Realistically we need legal advice re whyrapes don't result in convictions/useful sentences - lawyers police etc are better placed than we are to form workable strategies to combat this. I think education is important. But I also think things like Plan B on the Brits, the Hollyoaks rape story need coverage. Didn't Eastenders just have to change a storyline because of a campaign? Public opinion is where it's at.

LeninGrad · 03/03/2011 21:27

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Prolesworth · 03/03/2011 21:10

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SardineQueen · 03/03/2011 21:07

Hmmmmmm

Confused

Mind you the sapphire unit turned away some of warboys victims apparently.

Is it all lipservice?

scurryfunge · 03/03/2011 21:02

CPS are supposed to have a specialist sex offences lawyer already.

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