If men gave birth, would elective c-section be considered ok?

they would be having elective caeareans 3 weeks in lol
have some medical way of maikng someelse carry it for them.

care not case

I was under the impression that people with no medical insurance and illegal immigrants and people like that were getting by with no or little access to ante-natal care (which increases maternal mortality) and also in some cases with little access to care when they were actually giving birth?

sakura I thought that the high maternal death rate in the US was related to the different standards of case between those who have lots of medical insurance, and the vast numbers of women who have none.

IF men gave birth they've wouldn't have burned all the midwives in medieval times, pretending they were witches.
I'm still sad about the fact that birth has now been coopted by men, when it was originally a female domain. And the U.S has a shockingly high maternal mortality rate, related to the fact that one third of women there give birth by c-section.

From the more Ha-Ha perspective then.

• The term 'too posh to push' wont be used as much as it is...
• post c-sec physio will be available on the NHS
• c sec overhang and the size of it shall be a matter of pride and discussion
• VBAC will become extinct..

salt I started my conversation with DH with the question "if you could get pregnant and have a baby and that meant we could have another baby now would you want to do that?" and his answer was yes

So my poll of one on the giving birth bit is based on the (possibly unusual) situation of a man who is up for it

He was there for my horrendous first labour and both my csections as well. Although obviously not experiencing them himself.

So my poll of one is of a man who was thinking about it "properly" rather than being stunned IYSWIM. Still the answer was "whatever the doctors think".

It is an impossible question I suppose... But then more impossible than a woman pregnant for the first time in our society where people don't generally witness births? I certainly didn't have a clue what I was doing!

Oh Alice, I am sorry I have made you feel defensive. I have now dipped into the board but if I am to try to discuss things, to understand something that I always promoted and pushed for, without realising it had a name "feminism", then you cannot cut me off because I haven't posted in the correct place.

I am extremely grateful to the work of past feminists to advance rights for women in all areas. Yes they made significant changes. And I show this by carrying on the fight, not just sitting back and thinking everything is done. We have had feminists from back in the day on this board express how heartened they are this is happening, and I have come across this in real life many times too.

I don't need to express my 'concerns or whatever' here. This thread is about a specific issue. There's a whole board exploring the current issues far more broadly and comprehensively that I can do here.

Alice - with the birth of my first child, I had internals for no reason, was told to lie back and be silent - was not allowed to move around etc. It is MUCH better now for women and just as it should be. (well in this country) I am not saying there is no need for active feminism to ensure we keep pushing for our equal rights but my goodness, just 30 years ago the attitutdes towards women were dreadful.

So whilst I accept you think you are living it in terms of inequality (or whatever - you would need to specify your concerns) I thank my lucky stars my girls were born now and not when I was born, because it is so much better now and their prosepects are much much brighter.

And for those who cannot see that some posts were unequal in their treatment and respect towards men, take your rose tinted one way of looking at it glasses off, and re read. How can you expect respect and fairness, if you don't display it to others?

Well speculation is rather pointless in my opinion, as men have never experienced pregnancy for the whole of our 200 thousand years of existence. So many things would be completely different that we cannot know what behaviours would be like. Especially since you are using mens behaviour now as a template.

If you ask a man now what would he do if pregnant of course he would do what the doctor advised him to do. He would have no comprehension nor have anyone to relate to as well as being pretty stunned and incredulous.

The strength and size thing must be important surely?

MatureUniStudent, I'm not sure I'm reading the same thread as you.

Where has anyone here said they hate men?

Are you reading what you think you are reading, or what is actually there?

Another point though - if men had the children, might everything not just be directly reversed? Is the struggle of women purely due to us being the ones who bear the children, or is the average difference in physical size important?

aliceworld didn't start the thread

I don't think you'll find that everyone who posts will join in with the sentiments that you are (rightly IMO) objecting to.

How is this hating men? This is talking about the issue of different treatment of men and women, and speculating as to whether if something that relates solely to women, was something available to both men and women, would result in a different approach.

I remember the time women weren't treated equally too, doesn't involve being old, we're living it it.

I have to say though I don't really like the "what would it be like if the tables were turned hahaha they couldn't handle it" thing. I have no idea whether they could handle it or not.

Just going to ask DH if he would like to give birth naturally or have a CS, for an excellent poll of 1...

DH has pondered and says he would trust the doctors to say whatever was right at the time.

Which raises an interesting point actually. Women apparently are better at looking after themselves and knowing when something is wrong and going to the docs etc. Periods and stuff mean that we are pretty aware of our bodies and knowing what's going on. There is a strong movement towards natural childbirth which in my head is inseparably linked with whale music and visualisation and that sort of thing (not my cup of tea but whatever works for you etc). So if it were reversed, would the relationships with bodies be reversed? Or would men be very medicalised about it all and flatly say that there's no way they're doing breathing and zoning and all of that sort of thing?

Does any of that make sense?

Well this is the very first thread of yours I have read, and if you scroll up, there are some v derogatory comments, much like the cringeworthy stuff men say. ie cure for morning sickness etc.

I had thought feminism was a rather laudable thing where women are valued as equals and part of a sisterhood and where slagging off men, for the sake of it means we are as bad as they are, if they slag us off with off the cuff naff steriotypical comments. I remember the time when women were not treated equally (yes I am old). I love the fact, and envy it, that my girls have broad horizons that I never had and can be bold and brave and say what they feel without reproach because of their gender. It hasn't always been like that in the last 30 odd years.

I saw a little of the other thread. maturestudent makes a good point here that despite the ding dong which always happens with this topic, in the UK and on the NHS which is where the vast amount of births happen, they don't dish out sections on request.

So the OP on the other thread has been offered one because the NHS feels that it is appropriate to do so. So why the hoohah

Since when did you get the idea that feminists hate men?

And yes we would like women to be equal.

Well, I thought, that if you paid, you could have an Elective Caesarean. On the NHS, there had to be a valid medical reason for one? And if it was a pregnant man, then I would hope he would be treated with the same respect I think a pregnant woman should receive. Ditto if there was a medical (OK apart from the obvious!) reason to perform a caesarean. And since when, and I am happy to be corrected, did being a femanist mean you had to hate men? Arn't we women equal to all and thus should treat everyone equally?

Crikey and now I've highjacked this thread! Not having a good night am I!

Mrs I agree that looking for answers to the question (and it is a very interesting one) is fine. The reason I'm a bit annoyed is the whole 'some of the opinions are terrifying' these people and ' their internalized mysogynism' type responses which have then been repeated on this second thread. People had different opinions which have been shot down on a very patronising manner, to accuse people of being women haters( but the poor dears don't know it because their poor little female minds have been corupted so it's all internalised) is deeply insulting. My terrifying point was that women should not have the automatic right to ec because of monetary considerations. There is not enough money to treat people who are dying ffs (cuts on beds for cancer patients etc) it's bog all to do with a scary point of view.

Oh gee I am sorry for the rant, I'm usually a level headed person but I think a raw nerve has been rubbed.

Many of us DO think it's ok, thanks very much!