An 'interesting' conversation with my MIL about rape

Oh BM I've NEVER met a woman who didnlt know that - it is drummed into us implicitly and explicitly by a lifetime of messages that we are the gatekeepers, and if men 'gain access', it is our fault.

Your daughter knows how to keep herself as safe as she can - you don't have to drum the old tropes in there as well.

The problem is Boffinmum, that in real life the case would probably not come to court and get justice.

6% conviction rate on reported rapes.

I would define slapper as a word used by these very men to justify their attacks (context being all).

No, my inclination would probably be to drive over the perpetrator and leave him for dead, but in real life I would just make sure the case came to court and he came to justice.

I have to say that I also think that potential victims should be educated on how to make themselves less likely to be a victim of this crime. Like keeping your head about you and not drinking to much just like with any other crime. we are constantly advised on how to make our houses less likely to be targeted by burglars and many other things like muggings and assaults however I have to say straight from the outset I do not blame the victim if they are the target of crime.

Notjust

I completely understand and realise that. This is why i believe that there should be more education on the definition of rape etc. in schools. In the end every person male or female would know exactly what is and isn't rape or sexual assault and also be educated on how to proceed with it and get support of you are a victim and this would also educate any possible offenders.

I don't use words like slapper around my children because I don't want them to think it's OK to dehumanise women in this way.

It's partly that dehumanisation, whcih leads juries and most people, to write off the pain of rape as not being really important.

And if she dresses like a slapper (whatever that might mean) and gets raped, will you blame her, BoffinMum?

I tell my DD that if she gets completely pissed and out of control, there is a risk something bad will happen to her, if she flirts with relative strangers she has to be prepared to manoeuvre out of the situation as quickly as she went into it, and if she dresses like a slapper then a certain kind of bloke will think he can take advantage, so to be prepared for hassle if necessary. I think you need to be pragmatic and realise there are nasty pieces of work out there who hate women and will harm them.

Omg - do you understand that most women who have been raped won't tell anyone, let alone the police? There was a huge thread on here a few months ago that was a damning indictment of the true story of rape and rape reporting in this country.

Can't argue with you about the need to teach what rape is in schools OMG.

I think there is some good work being done about this, but of course with all the cuts in education, PHSE, SEAL, extended schools, etc., all those bits of expertise coming into schools are going to be gone again.

Sorry I should have noted that my last post was directed at herbex.

One theory as to 'why' women believe these myths, is that if you, as a woman, believe that rape victim are tartily dressed/behave provocatively/pissed out of their minds then you, a women who does not to these things, are protected from ever being raped. It's a mental defence against what is a very frightening fact.

We all know, and many women find out, that there is no special 'protection' against being raped (other than physical defence which isn't always possible)if you are with a man who decides to rape you. Men rape OAPs, children, their relatives, teetotallers, strangers on the street, women they date, longstanding friends, colleagues, sex workers, health professionals - every category you can think of.

I think it's quite a persuasive theory, although I also blame the internalised misogyny which we all carry around in our heads, and which allows so many rape victims to blame themselves too.

As I said I looked at this report after you(I think it was you) pointed it out to me and it looked pretty much like the way foward and the reponse from the government was quite positive. I just think that if the victims were encouraged more and that the definition of rape was more widely taught in schools maybe as part of learning for life and work. Not sure if it is even part of a subject in school atm.

Omg30 - 58% of the ones that make it to court is a crap stat. Most of those are going to be stranger rape I'm afraid.

I didn't bother to report my rapist because I was dating him and I invited him into my home. That's when most rapes happen. And although you are prepared to give the women in your life your support, the courts won't.

That's the battle.

My response to the statistics you quote about public attitudes to rape, is that although they superficially sound encouraging, I would bet good money on them being related to what most people think of as rape - being dragged down a dark alley by a total stranger. I think that accounts for something like 7 0r 8% of rapes doesn't it? Don't know the exact figures, but it's certainly less than 10%.

Public attitudes to the majority of rapes - IE those carried out be someone you know - are very, very different. When people are asked about rape, they don't think of the sort of case like this one, where the bloke is drunk, or a date rape, or the rape of a girlfriend - they are thinking of strangers in dark alleys. Which isn't very helpful, because most of us who are raped, are raped by men we know or have at least met within the last 12 hours.

The reason people focus on the lower conviction rate instead of the higher one, is because it is a better reflection of the truth.

And the worst thing is, it doesn't go far enough - the true conviction figure is far lower than 6% when you take into account the fact that the vast majority of rapes aren't ever reported.

So we're really not being glass half empty here.

That's if she bothered to report it, knowing that she's unlikely to get justice.

Yes but 90% of reported cased don't make it to court OMG, and it's not just because women give up because they are too idle to take it forward, it's because they are strongly discouraged from doing so by the police and the CPS and the way rapes are handled before they get to court. Most of the rape cases which get to court at all, are the classic ie rare stranger in a dark alley or breaking into your house cases.

And that's the reported cases. We know that between 50-90% of cases aren't even reported.

So this 58% figure, which sounds so optimistic, is just a drop in the ocean when you compare it to the amount of rape which is actually going on.

If this rapist had raped his girlfriend instead of the other woman, chances are the case wouldn't have got to court at all.

58% of rape cases are convicted if they make it to court. I really wish people would stop reporting the lower conviction rate and instead tell people about the higher court one. The reason it is low is because the victims are discouraged from seeing the complaint right through to the end. If you ever are ever a victim take it straight to court don't withdraw the complaint because people say the conviction rate is low. I may be a man but I have a mum, 2 daughters, a wife, a sister and many many other female relatives and friends and I would rather these bastards be off the street in jail than be free to do it to someone else. I honestly believe that taking the suggestions in this report onboard in full it the only way to solve this problem.

I put the same post on another thread and herbex I think it was told me that a review looked into to it and I managed to find it.

"Baroness Stern also highlights the need to better explain often complicated
statistics relating to rape. For example, the frequently reported headline
figure of 6.5 per cent of reported rapes resulting in a conviction is
misleading and can even act as a deterrent to reporting. It is also out of
step with how conviction rates for other crimes are reported ? a more
comparable statistic is 58 per cent of cases prosecuted as rape cases,
including guilty pleas, result in a conviction for rape or another offence.
55 per cent of jury trials result in a conviction."

You may also find this part of the report helpful.

Public Attitudes
? The vast majority of people (81per cent) do not think the courts are
too severe with men found guilty of rape
? The vast majority of people (85per cent) strongly disagree with the
assertion that if a women is raped it is usually her own fault
? Women are more likely than men to think they would report rape to the police
? Most people (71per cent) support custodial sentences for rape
(All findings from the 2010 Attitudes to Rape survey)

Link to the full report and government response

I would be interested in what everyone else thought about this report and the suggestions.

Good for you! I do too. I try and think of it as playing the long game, because short term it can make things difficult with people I know. But at least they know that they will get a sympathetic ear from me if anything ever happens to them in the future. Also, if we (as a society) think that bodily integrity is important and violations of it are unacceptable, then we should make that clear to the fuckwits who continue to cross the boundary. Boundaries are nothing without consequences.

and yes, thefinerthingsinlife, that is one reason why the conviction rate is low. And why so few people will even report a rape, let alone see it go to trial.

thank you not. i am not sorry, it taught me alot. it wasn't pleasant but i am not emotionally hurt by it. it made me angry and i have used the anger to make myself speak out more, even jsut in everyday conversations about not accepting taht behaviour jsut becasue you are female.