This board is the most frightening .

Thanks, LadyBiscuit :)

There are loads of topics here that I'd like to engage with. But I invariably get scared off by tactics not dissimilar to the ones I challenged on the dreaded bullying thread. Now, I'm not getting into definitions of bullying again and I'm not picking out any specific examples here. Just trying to say that it's not a matter of dumbing down ime, more a question of quichery and attitude.

If you find my point invalid, perhaps you might (collectively) ask yourselves why this topic always prompts a flurry of posts about dumbing down. What does that say about how you see "non-approved" FWR members?

I also regret that you feel scared Grace but having seen a few threads you've been on here, I do see why.

I don't think we can dismiss that some regular Mumsnetters feel intimidated from posting on this board. The reasons being given are pretty varied, but the main ones seem to be a lack of intellectual confidence, being harangued for their posts when they wanted a debate, not an argument - and a couple of posters have said that their posts are always ignored.

I've seen that too and would also add that some of that happened to me on a recent thread on this board. If lots of posters are making those observations, not to mention the possibility that there are lurkers who really are too afraid to post even on a thread that invites their concerns, then I do think it's a problem that we can't overlook.

However, I think it's also true of AIBU and there might be other boards that posters also find scary. I think it's really welcome that the OP here has had the courage to start a thread about it.

I think we all accept that trolls and shit-stirrers are going to get short shrift if they post on any board, but I think we'd be disingenuous if we ignored the testimony here that posters who tend to be regular, respected contributors on other boards, feel they've had a particularly hard time on this one.

If the effect of that is to deter contributions from a wider sample of posters, then I think we should listen to posters' concerns and instead of getting defensive, take the sort of positive action that we've seen today e.g. starting a questions/views thread about the porn industry, the "welcome" and Introduction to Feminism thread. They are all really positive, helpful actions, but that atmosphere needs to permeate all the threads, IMO.

Grace - I am very sad that you feel like that. I really value your posts.

I struggle with anyone who doesn't call themselves a feminist but I'm really willing to engage with those who aren't sure. And actually I'd probably find that more interesting than talking to a lot of women who are where I am (I don't mean that to be at all patronising but back-slapping is not what I'm about)

I think the fact that so many women choose to actively define themselves as not feminists is a really big struggle and one we all need to engage in. If women are being alienated then we need to ask why. I'm not saying that there needs to be any dumbing down but I don't think a bit of navel-gazing is a bad thing.

red, you are entitled to your opinion

honestly you are

you are right, the "intro" threads have only come into being because of another thread that said that Feminism/Womens Rights was one of the most feared areas

but the language you use is a bit OTT, IMO, and I am not surprised people are at your posts

but don't go away, all opinions are valid

It depends on your area of interest what you find frightening. Personally I find the feminist section rather cosy, while I avoid some of the mumsnet topics like the plague, and don't dare post in a couple of topics at all.

It's hard, perhaps impossible, to have every discussion starting from the lowest common denominator, someone who knows nothing of or is sceptical about feminism. If you have to start from scratch on every thread you can't actually discuss anything. Just as if I went on, say, Good Housekeeping threads and asked what a jaycloth is.

Maybe there is a place for introductory feminism but not all the time, and the nice thing (for me) about the Feminism board is that certain things are assumed and you can move on and actually talk about things from a similar starting point.

I'm not scared of feminism/feminists. I am scared of this board.

Yes that's quite right fangbanger

dittany

I haven't ignored your responses - I am engaging in dialogue

but hey, whatever

I'll take myself off then.

Look if there was a racism / minority issues board and I was a bit scared of it, I would lurk and learn. If I had a bad experience on it, I wouldn't immediately conclude that I was never going to engage with it again, becasue I am interested in the issues.

People who claim that they are never going to talk to us again because we are all horrible, never really wanted to talk to us properly in the first place IMO.

And I know that will go down as being another dismissive feminist POV.

No higher standard, SGM.

I would, and have, said the same on any other section too.

saying it happens elsewhere does not make it right.

I don't think the posters who have posted here saying they can not be bothered with the feminism boards due to the hostility often shown are themselves hostile to feminism.

and I don't think that any power is being given or perceived in the way you imply.

But the fact remains that posters have come here in the past with questions and queries and been fully rounded upon. for little reason at times, other than they have used the wrong terminology.

and there have been several posters on this thread who have said as much, as well as many more posters who have said similar (not just today/yesterday on the other thread, but it is a standing joke that many posters do not even put their head round the door over here because of the reputation for sneering and aggressive posting)

I think that power dynamic thing has been echoed in this thread - the idea that feminists have some kind of power, that we can educate the masses about it, if only we'd do it properly.

When the truth is, that the people who are hostile to feminism, would never listen and learn, however reasonable and patient and forbearing and turning of the other cheek we were.

And to be fair I think 80% of the time we are. But that's not enough for those who have a bee in their bonnet about how horrid and scarey we all are.

yes, you did explain the dynamic in your post.

sorry, my post was not very clear.

where have you seen this dynamic reflected in this thread (otherwise, as I said, it is a bit of an odd general point to drop in)

ref: the teaching bit. no, no further comment. I think the thread, and the responses given earlier stand for themselves.

The Intro threads are well and good. And I hope everyone enjoys them.

But they cannot alone cancel out the past months of hounding and pouncing.

ok, fair enough.
but seriously, what dynamic were you referring to? presumably something that has been echoed in this thread, otherwise it would be a bit odd to drop a general point like that in.