This board is the most frightening .

Dittany I know the Fabian society helped found the Labour movement! But their politics were never as radical as the Labour movement became. That was exactly my point; that posters who call themselves feminists and have feminist principles in the way they lead their lives are still saying that they feel intimidated or scared about posting here. I think that's a shame. I don't want to "tell anyone off" either, because that is exactly the sort of behaviour that puts posters off, I think.

You didn't say anything about Labour party conferences. Your reference was about why regular posters on this board should welcome people with opposing views, using the analogy that we wouldn't expect the Labour party to invite the BNP in. You see, just like I always felt that political parties should start a dialogue with people whose views might be unpalatable and extreme (Sinn Fein in the 1980s for example) I think this board would benefit from a range of different feminist perspectives; those not sure of what feminism is, those who have modified their views (becoming either less or more radical) or those who just want to debate feminist issues.

I don't know anything about the poster who started this thread. I did see the "scary board" thread that spawned this one and I felt very sorry that this board appears to be off-limits for so many female posters, while understanding why that might be so.

I should add that your knowledge and viewpoints have greatly added to my own learning about feminism Dittany but I write from the perspective that we should all be able to post on here without feeling hectored or that a debate is going to degenerate into an argument.

Beautiful post, WWIFN. Thank you :)

"Personally I expect women to have feminist views if not to be activists. I would hope that most men too would agree with the basic tenets of feminism, in the same way that I would hope that most people aren't racist.", nooka, you say this.

Nope. that doesn't happen, not in the slightest. Reminds me of teh Chinese diplomat who was asked recently what he thought about the effcts of the French Rveolution. He answred "it's too early to tell".

I do know that the hope of the planet lies with our young people, and how we best prepare them for this task. They will ahve decisions to make much younger than our genearation ever had. By banging into their skulls lessons of equality MAY make a difference. I hope it does with my dds.

jess - it's not distancing. it's about identifying. we all label ourselves and i label myself differently to you. its not bad or negative - just different

doesn't go down well - that should read

Perhaps if ppl stop bullying others could help. I was desmoralised because i was in a hurry and wrote WID and SUM .

I think on mumsnet i certain;y do not get any brownie points for identifying myself thus. Actually my ideological or Ppolitical label goes down well in mainstream society either, as it isn't mainsteam.

as i said, i only do so within topic which has happened a couple of times. It would be nice to have a discussion, yes, i think that is what i would like out of any contribution, as would any non identifying contributors without feeling frightened as the thread title suggests. of course i am not frightened, clearly

But it's not just about views being unwelcomed. It's a given that sexist or anti-feminist are going to be unwelcome on a feminist board. What many posters are saying is that despite the fact that they are feminists or non (as opposed to anti) feminists, they still feel intimidated at times. I therefore disagree with your particular political party analogy Dittany because this isn't analagous to the Labour Party conference welcoming a BNP speaker. It's more analagous with the Labour party being unwelcoming to someone with Fabian principles, or agreeing to appear in a televised interview with John Sergeant and finding instead that the host is Jeremy Paxman.

Most intelligent posters enjoy debates, but they don't want their posts to be picked apart, cut and pasted several times so that the overall message and tone of their posts are lost and most of all I suspect, they don't want an argument.

I might quite legitimately say "I am a feminist because I am a woman" because I suspect that my experiences as a woman are one of the reasons why I have noticed so much inequality and discrimination (although my views have become much stronger as my children have grown up, so I might qualify that by saying as a woman and a parent). What wouldn't be so true is to say "because I am a woman I am a feminist" as it implies that women are somehow naturally feminists.

Personally I expect women to have feminist views if not to be activists. I would hope that most men too would agree with the basic tenets of feminism, in the same way that I would hope that most people aren't racist.

Custardo-I'm still not clear why you are so keen to distance yourself from the feminist label.

sakura, leaving the point about this just being the interweb at the door, i am firm in my beliefs, the topic of the thread is about feminism topic being frightening

dittany believes that everyone but anti feminists and sexists are made most welcome.

i am not and anti feminists or a sexist. I have seen other women who do not identify themselves as feminists too, infac there was a whole anti v's non feminist - what's the difference, kind of discussion, however if you do 'come out' and identify yourself as not being a feminist - in the context of a discussion ofcourse, then it can get quite hairy. I can fully understand why people wouldn't want to engage in this topic.

it is isn't it? and so useful this evening. On mumsnet?? I haven't started finding these tresures.

Oh for heavens sake,
The feminist topic is a counter-culture topic. It rejects the mainstream POV. That's the whole point of it.

I do not understand why some people are now saying feminism should be more palatable to the mainstream point of view, or even that it should become the mainstream point of view, because then everyone would feel better about its existence.

People don't like feminism because it forces them to take a good long hard look at themselves and their lives.

If a lurker is genuinely curious, then just ask questions. Or read . If you strongly believes in a particular POV, and someone on feminims opposes it, then so what? If you believe in it, what does it matter what a random person on the interweb says about it. Is your belief that shaky?

anyway i think this exchange proved my point perfectly

nothing, have i said there was dittany? if so please tell me where - re-post it in context and perhaps i can explain?"

This custarodo:

"you will effectivley have a board of people who all agree and then i am not sure that there is any debate. But my view is that debate is stifled somewhat because sometimes this section seems as though it doesn't want to listen to other points of view."

that is not in context

What do you mean by other point of view, because the only points of view I know that this section resists is anti-feminism or misogyny. I can't see why you'd object to that or see it as "stifling debate".

i don't object to that at all, however i feel it is difficult when one identifies oneself as a non feminist - not anti, to have a debate on this board. If you only want people who ideologically identify with feminism to contribute, then this is fine.

"are you saying here that the feminist board is for feminists only?"

I'm saying it's not welcoming to anti-feminists or sexists, nor should it be.

you are the only person to mention anti feminists or sexists. unless you are indeed inferring that i am one?

And I say "yes, I am a bloke...and I'm not so sure about the feminst thing, but am getting a bit unsure about the fights that seem to happen here about definitions so I will wing it for a bit and talk to people in fishnet as that is my immediate concern as we have lost one fish and the other is looking a bit ddogey thisevening though I have painted the kitchen today which I am really pleased about.".

x-post, custardo.

I shall now retreat (again) to somewhere with broader horizons.

Some of you are a bit too quick to "She Who Is Not With Me Is Against Me" though. Life's too short to spend it debating whether I'm feminist enough for a particular group. I'm not as much "with you" as many would like, but that doesn't mean I'm against you. It does mean I feel unwelcome at many of these threads, though.

A bunch of people who agree with one another are perfectly free to exchange their similar views amongst themselves. In such a case, it should be obvious why the group finds it difficult to draw in others.

Yes, I say "I am a feminist because I'm a woman".

custardo bum note

considering the good feeling and ground given by the feminist posters on here this evening, there was absolutely no reason for that

have some fgs