Acquiescence

"the woman is not engaging."

Don't you think though that a lot of people truly believe that men (as a homogenous group) are inherently not as empathetic as women. Therefore they are starting off at a different level to a woman when a man and a woman meet. So following on from that it is already the woman's role to make her position clear in words of no more than one syllable because the man won't understand any body language. He won't pick up on the fact that the woman is engaging.

You see it a lot on the rape threads statements that go along the lines that maybe the man didn't know you that the woman didn't want sex. Maybe he wasn't able to read her body language. I am certain that most men can tell when a woman doesn't want sex. It is a very clear line and society upholding this myth that woman are "more caring" than men puts them on the back foot immediately.

Sorry a bit of a ramble but hope you get what I mean.

I thought your last pararagraph was great, the idea that society sees men as having a right to sex but women as not having that right.
But I don't agree that rape just "happens" because a man happens to lack empathy. I don't actually think there is a grey area between sex and rape.
If a man is unable to empathize with women, then he's a sociopath. Actually the definition of psychopath is someone who cannot empathize. If a rapist can't put himself in another person's shoes then it follows that he must be completely dysfunctional in all areas of life, including work and friends... .
ANd yet, rapists are not dysfunctional outcasts. Many are married, have jobs. You need empathy for all those things. The empathy "gene" doesn't just disappear when it comes to violating the victim you have chosen. This tells me that they are either a) dangerous sociopaths who cannot empathise, do not see women as human, and need locking up ASAP or b) dangerous -non -sociopaths who know exactly how the women are feeling during the rape but do not care and do not see them as human, and who also needs locking up

I don't think anybody can confidently say why rapists rape. Surely that is as varied as human nature itself.

I believe that some men rape to assert power, but not all. I believe some rapists are the product of dysfunctional homes, but 1, how do you define dysfunctional, and 2, again, not all. I also think HerBeX has a good point with the legitimate grey area, perhaps some confusion exists here (although admittedly the man would have to be either stupid, unobservant or lacking in empathy) - but stupid, unobservant and non-empathetic people do exist, so what can be done about this? (Hypothetical/discussion point, btw, not a shrug of the shoulders oh-well.)

And then yes, there is this socialisation of men and boys that they can expect sex, that if they treat a woman in the "right" way that she should have sex with him, or she is "frigid" or has a problem. I don't really understand it, but there seems to be an expectation that a man has a right to the use of someone else's body for sex - see prostitution, affairs in a sexually dead marriage, coercion into sex... and yet if a woman is single, in a sexless marriage, etc, the expectation is she will buy a vibrator and sort herself out. She doesn't automatically assume she has the right to use another's body, if only it has been earned.

I'm not sure if that makes sense or not, anyway.

I see both prolesworth and dittanys pov regarding stopping rape. On the one hand the onus shouldn't be on women to prevent rape but on the other there won't be a wholesale change in attitudes overnight so in the meantime we must educate girls to be safe and how to say no without fear of being rude or what have you.

yes, its a political and personal justice issue, little to do with 'rules of sexual engagement'. Thats just the symptom, IMO.

I don't think rapists are products of dysfunctional home lifes or messed up parenting. It's messages absorbed generated from wider society that indicates it's 'okay'. That one's urge to subjucate is far more valuable than the other's basic right to be not subjucated.

Poor gril, ooops I meant girl,

Prison alone will not be enough to stop male violence against women.

Prison sentences have not stopped murders being committed almost on a daily basis, yep men murder women too. That poor gril 8m pregnant murdered by some fruit cake.

But you see, rapists are fruit cakes, they are aborations of normal, mad or not they do have choice. But they are a product of dysfunctional homes and parental relationships.

However equally so rapists are ordinary very inexperienced young men with low self esteem who don't understand female behaviour.

All of this comes down to education not prison sentences.

We need to get to a point not where prisons are full to bursting but where women are safe.

Dittany how are you going to stop men raping women?

I think we need to educate men at the same time as women.

It doesn't matter if women know what rape is, if the policemen, lawyers, judges and courts don't know it.

The women who report rape to the police, know it's rape, that's why they report it. Still most of their cases never make it to court, becasue the mainly men who investigate it and decide if it should go to court, don't know it.

More so than ever women need to have a clear understanding of what constitutes rape.

I concur, because right now so many girls are really messed up wondering if they were drugged, drunk, raped, consented, conscious, unconscious. The evils of alcohol.

Remove the alcohol from the equation and women will be more cognitive.

Sorry, if that offends, it's not meant to but young grils need to know 3 things

What is rape and sexual assault

How to assert themselves and how to behave if there is a risk of violence.

How to keep safe and assess risk.

Once we have that under control, we can get to work on educating men instead of totting up yet more numbers of victims.