Bidisha article on pubic hair removal

It is indeed a complete myth that removing pubic hair is more 'hygienic'. Pubic hair serves several functions, one of which is similar to that of eyelashes/eyebrows, i.e. to protect parts of the body vulnerable to infection from dust/dirt/bacteria.

But it is simply wrong to say that pubic hair is unhygienic.

It's no more unhygienic than head hair and we don't shave that off.

In fact, it's possibly less hygienic not to have minge hair - it collects bacteria and stops it going into your fanny. Waxing and shaving can be quite hard on your skin in that area and can cause tiny abrasions that let in bacteria. It's potentially extremely unhygienic to whip it off.

Personally, I am not dismissing anyone for the choices they make.

But our choices are affected by societal pressures. Of course they are. Surely you can see that? Every choice we make is affected or informed by something. And I strongly suspect that the constant messages we receive telling us that young, pert, hairless bodies = attractive (to men) play a big part in many women making the choice to remove their body hair.

"I believe the pornification of our society is putting woman under pressure"

vesuvia I find it interesting that when these threads arise, which at the moment is frequently, not one of the many, many woman that do depilate cite feeling under any sort of pressure as the reason for their choice. And I believe that, without exception, every woman is specific that it is a choice.

Instead I have seen many eloquently expressed, entirely logical, rationales for hair removal. Almost without exception such arguments are dismissed as naive and uneducated, lacking in understanding and often simply plain wrong.

Intelligent, confident woman who make a relatively insignificant choice (I certainly have not come across any woman who, for example feels "deeply affected by her minge hair") are dismissed as foolish woman who are failing to recognise that their decision is part of a broader political and cultural framework and I don't believe this is necessarily true.

Loved this article. My mum was the one who sent me a link to it .

I find the whole issue utterly depressing, to be honest. I agree with vesuvia re: the 'pornification' of our society. It is extreme and it is everywhere. I am always shocked when other women don't recognise it.

at the thought of asking my mother about pubic hair.

Look back and ask your mother (if you have that kind of relationship) if she felt compelled to shave off all her pussy hair?..I feel women are actually pressured into getting a pum pum hair do..be it brazil or otherwise...but why?..fashion?..control?.both?..one disguised as the other?...a woman should not feel she is deeply affected/badly groomed by the fact she has minge hair...

jinxediam - "why does this really matter? I think I would only take issue with this if women felt under pressure to shave rather than as their free choice to do so?"

I believe the pornification of our society is putting women under pressure to do this and other things.

NancyDrewHadaClue wrote - "total hair removal is also advocated and widely practised in many countries where pornography is illegal or at least severely frowned upon."

For example, the Middle East.

It's been ignored in western societies for centuries until the last few years.

I suppose one's view depends on whether one believes its migration to western societies was caused by the rise of internet porn, or that it is just a coincidence.

I wonder what the prevalence of total hair removal is in Spain now, considering it used to be an arab region which became western?

vesuvia That's a good point although TBH why does this really matter? I think I would only take issue with this if women felt under pressure to shave rather than as their free choice to do so?

Chances are i'll get bored with the maintenance required in a few months and go back to my trimmed habits instead...but for now its fine. Saying that- if people prefer it aesthetically then IMO its as much of a fashion as straightened hair!

You're right, and it's really interesting to also make sense of other cultural experiences. I don't believe the other cultures I know of that practice hair removal are influential enough in the west for that to be the reason for the cultural change here (speaking from the UK). But yes important not to be western centric.

Interestingly (or not) total hair removal is also advocated and widely practised in many countries where pornography is illegal or at least severely frowned upon.

coldtits I am clearly also doing feminism wrong....although that may or may not be better than doing oral sex wrong ho hum....

Coldtits, no for me feminism is not about choice. It's about looking things through the lens of patriarchy. That's not to say it doesn't include or exclude choice, but that isn't, for me, the underpinning of feminism.

--------

Hence why this subject is interesting. Not to hear individuals' tales of what they do and don't do and why they do and don't do it, but to contextualise it within culture and say, but why. Not the why the individual gives, but the larger cultural trends that make those decisions be the ones that make sense at the point in time.

IMO every decision we make has reasons that we attribute to it on a personal level. But those decisions are contextualised within a wider culture. So I might choose to wear a bit of makeup if I'm feeling crap and need to stand up and speak in front of a bunch of people. My personal reason would be something like cos it makes me look better, healthier, more awake, gives me more confidence. But the reason that I believe make up does these things is not because they just do, it's because wider culture has constructed that they do.

That's why the link between porn and hair removal has nothing whatsoever to do with whether the individual has seen porn. It's to do with the way in which it changes cultural norms. The idea of cleanliness and freshness is also not descended from the heavens, it is what culture frames as being clean and fresh. These things are malleable and change over time.

Another example before I stop this far too long post, I like to go walking in the countryside. I like it because I like the feel of being in nature, seeing the plants, landscape, animals etc. It makes me feel more grounded and so on. Pretty predictable stuff. Had I lived pre-romantics I would have seen the countryside as wild, dangerous and somewhere to fear. At points in history I would have seen it as dirty and backward. The reason I see if the way I do not is because culture has evolved in a way to associate the attributes I do with it. We all operate within a culture. (If anyone's interested in this example, Raymond Williams, The Country and the City)

jinxediam wrote - "I read a thread about it on here a few months back and decided to shave my (trimmed) bush off as an experiment...and now much prefer it smooth. And I don't watch porn either so I can't lay the blame there"

Even if you don't use porn, many other people do. What about the possibility that shaving was being discussed on that thread only because shaving has become widespread among women, due to increasing use of porn throughout society?

I don't believe men shave/ wax their pubes in anything like the same number as women now do.

In spite of the fact that blow jobs often involve hairy testicles.

DH also periodically trims/shaves his too as he thinks it looks better. So I guess that puts the men dont shave 'down there' argument into question....

I like mine sans hair...makes sex better I read a thread about it on here a few months back and decided to shave my (trimmed) bush off as an experiment...and now much prefer it smooth. And I don't watch porn either so I can't lay the blame there -I do make my own tho when i'm in the mood

I just like the feel of it all off (I do have a bit of a body hair thing tho- legs/arms/underarms shaved and am always tweezing...and i'm blonde so not even that hairy!

thats my 10p 's worth anyway...

nothing tp do with not being able to find it, everything to do with not wanting my partner to be spitting out pubic hair every 45 seconds while he's down there. It's my choice. Surely that is what the point of feminism alway was?? Or am I Doing Feminism Wrong Again???

I certainly don't have sterile sex (learnt that on the sex on your period thread ) and I have no idea what men in general think of pubes in their mouth, or for that matter woman.

I do know that I prefer not. And excuse me whilst I am graphic but if I am sucking testicles then I am going to get a mouthful of hair. Same for men - if they have their tongue in your vagina then surely they end up with a mouthful - that is anatomy rather than incompetency (unless other people do this completely differently )

Look people clearly fall into one of two camps. Personally I have no issue with people who choose not to depilate and frankly my mind boggles that people are so hung up on my decision to do so.

I don't accept the argument that saying it is a hygenic leads to the idea of something being dirty like woman since both genders have pubic hair, and as evidenced on this thread both genders have been known to remove hair for hygene reasons.

I can't stand the "hygenic" and "fresh" line either. It implies that pubes are unhygenic. It's only a short step from this "unhygenic" line of thought to "dirty" and then on to "dirty like women"

Jeez how sterile sex must have become if, in the throes of passion, men are concerned about getting a mouthful of coarse hair.
Smacks of incompetency to me. You'd have to try really hard to get a mouthful of hair in your mouth; something like that doesn't just happen by accident

I think what colditz is saying is that in can be more enjoyable to perform oral sex without getting a mouthful of coarse hair, nothing to do with an inability to find the clitoris.

I wont make generalisations because the response is always "my vulva/pubes/clitoris aren't like/don't do that" but I don't imagine I am alone in that view. Horses for courses and all that but I don't much like the idea of kissing a man with a full facial beard.

My DH trims the hair on his testicles: He started doing this as he found he got sweaty and uncomfortable and as a result we both discovered we enjoyed BJ's more. I have no idea how many men do this routinely it is not the sort of thing I ask my male friends

There are three reasons why I and most of the woman I have discussed this issue with remove hair:

1. It feels more hygenic especially round the time of my period.

1. It increases friction (or something) during sex and so sex is better.

1. It means I can sit cross legged in my bikini without being paranoid that I have unsightly hair hanging out.

Oh and anyone who thinks that a hair free adult vulva visually bears any relation to that of a prepubescent child obviously hasn't actually seen either.

thank you for mentioning the hair on testicles HerBex. Colditz, your difficult to get to the clitoris argument doesn't make sense to me. Are you saying the Bic preceded satisfying cunnilingus? Oral sex is as old as God's dog... if a man can't find the clitoris because of some hair then he's not trying very hard, bordering on incompetent I would say.

And Anna Wintour is......?