slimming clubs and feminisim

your dh's aunt, sorry

alexpolis that is absolutely shocking about your aunt. That's what the global food production system is like ,just on a larger scale.

I think the womenon MN are probably more connected to food than the general population, through the luck of being members of a particular socio-economic group. There's even a friggin chicken-keeping topic! (which actually sounds quite fascinating). BUt to keep chickens you need land, quite a bit I should imagine...

But it doesn't keep women away from the persistent messages to buy crap food.

Sorry, I didn't mean to make it sound really simple. I realise a lot of people struggle with these issues. I just suggested walking as it's something generally easy to take up and can be quite enjoyable.

Sakura - you make some very good points. Are there really people out there who don't eat any fresh food? Not so much as an apple? Or a potato? Apart from packets of pasta and digestive biscuits, I don't think we get much ready made stuff. But then both dh and I enjoy cooking. And I am lucky in that my PILs grow lots of veg in their garden, so there is always plenty.

I think your point about the cauldron is interesting, I had never considered it that way before.

Re women doing all the work - My Dh's uncle and aunt ran a vegetable farm, growing tomatoes, courgettes, carrots, potatoes, that sort of thing. His aunt worked all day long, and now (years later) has back problems related to her hard work. Yet she never got any of the money - it all went to her husband. Not only that, but it was all done in his name, so she is not even entitled to a pension in her own right. She was uneducated (only completed a few years of primary school before she was made to stop, as it was unnecessary for a girl), barely literate and could not read the paperwork involved in paying insurance, etc. Her husband just used to tell her he was taking care of it. No officials ever queried it. And this is in a Western country!

Sakura, one of the things I find sad about what I have done to myself is that I will never be able to forget about it. Because I have wrecked my natural regulators. It's rubbish, and the thought of spending the next x number of years constantly planning is horrible - but better than having x number of years reduced through weight related illness.

sorry, I really hope that didn't sound like I thought you were being neurotic. I don't think that at all. I think that women worrying about your weight is a natural consequence of the messages our culture rams down their throats
I mean, try to take a step back from it all and focus on something else. it's so overwhelming

upsydaisy, I hope I'm not overstepping the mark here YOu're intelligent, articulate, but you seem really overly focused on this. It's such a waste of your energy and it's a real fucking shame that society conspires against women to keep them focused on their body
I wonder if forgetting about your weight and losing weight would help. Find something totally unrelated to throw yourself into (how about feminism ) and I reckon the weight will drop off

well.. umm, for example, women produce over 90% of the world's food: they plant and harvest it, but the profiteers of this work are men. Then women have to use their paltry wage to buy back food in processed cheap forms by the very corporations that exploit them in the first place.

In the west, many women don't even know what raw food looks like: never shelled a pea, never descaled a fish...
OUr connection to be food has been wrested from us.

Look at the symbolism of a witch's cauldron. A cauldron is simply a large soup pot you heat over the fire. Women would have used it to feed lots of people, family or friends, because of its large size, but something that was nurturing and female and connected to food now has monstrous connotations

The diet industry, all the slimming yoghurts and other products.. it's all there to make a profit out of women

Not sure what the answer is, but I think women need to reclaim food.

I went to slimmming world twice, I got SO cross I never went back.

It was for people who are obsessed with food and hate themselves, well, that was the overwhelming feeling I got. A whole table covered in wrappers and packets, obsessive talking about what they could/ couldn't have... I got SO angry. Didn't say anything, but wanted to. The corporate thing made me crazy too. I know it works for some people, I used WW myself just after I had DD - BUT I was applauded etc for losing weight very quickly (more than 2 1/2 stone in 2 months) when in fact I was in the grip of PND and didn't eat.

I went in July last year, when I was my aabsolute heaviest. I did not get inspired, other than in self-loathing.

Trouble is, in common with many people with weight problems my age, I have been yoyoing and fannying about with food since I was about 12. I no longer have normal hunger signals, I do not believe I process food properly. And if I am told (even by myself) that I can't have something, then I will probably have 3.

So now, I eat what I want, when I want it, after a quick psychological check through (do I want it because I am sad/ bored/ cold/ tired, am I thirsty?) and if I still want it, then I have it. I'm almost 2 stone down since last July, slow loss due to massive blip at Xmas! But I am happy with that, because I hope it means I am re-educating my body.

I hope.

Men are rarer at these groups, and the ones I've seen have been fawned over and celebrated, it's quite bizaare.

Whole diet issue is a fuck up, IMO.

Sakura - can I just ask what you mean by 'connect with food'?

I don't think that high heels, dyed hair and body weight are necessarily related.

I think that if you are really overweight, then it is sensible, whether a woman or a man, to lose some weight, for your health. I do agree that you should not be compared to a much older person with arthritis.

If you are not happy at slimming world, then don't go there. Try just eating sensibly at home, without trying out any silly fashionable diets, and doing some exercise. I walk everywhere and don't drive at all. It helps to keep me fit, I enjoy walking, and gives ample opportunities to point things out to the children (look, there's a pine tree, why don't you pick up the pine cone/ let's smell these roses/ etc). Plus, of course, it can help you to lose weight.

If you are breastfeeding two, do you not find it helps to keep the weight off? I put on a lot of weight during pregnancy, but it all came off again with breastfeeding, without me actively trying, in fact I ate loads more than usual while I was tandem feeding.

Excessive and obsessive dieting and worrying about fat is a feminist issue, I think, because of the way it is pushed on us by the media. But I believe that sensible dieting, combined with exercise is a health issue. For example, my mother improved her diabetes by losing weight, and you say you want to have more energy (although with 2 young children you'll probably still be tired all the time anyway!) Why not take up brisk walking? You can start with 20 mins, or whatever you are comfortable with, and gradually increase.

hi, really interesting point you made there about them getting you to "compete" with a pensioner with arthritis

It would do women a huge favour if culturally, they were to reconnect with food, and it may be that feminism could help them do that. Our connection to food has been severed by industrial revolution and mutli-national corporations.
Germaine Greer has a chapter on food in The Whole Woman that's well worth reading