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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

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Original poster

'That' thread....

114 replies

Janos · 04/02/2011 19:19

You probably know which one I'm referring to.

I have found it very upsetting to read because I have been in an almost identical situation to the OP :(

I was raped by a so called friend - it happened several years ago. I won't go into the details because I find it too upsetting to talk about. Suffice to say it was a bloody horrible experience.

I have been so distressed by some of the attitudes on that thread on that thread, but also heartened (if thats the right word) to read the comments from Rhadegunde, Dittany, IngridBergman, Blinder and others (sorry if have missed anyone out).

I don't feel able to post on there but wanted to say a heartfelt thank you. I'm glad there are women like you out there.

OP posts:

IngridBergmann · 05/02/2011 08:48

what a loon

I think I might remember that actually.

Rhadegunde · 05/02/2011 08:46

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IngridBergmann · 05/02/2011 08:14

Oh really? I'm sorry. I genuinely thought he was female.

Oh dear.

Rhadegunde · 05/02/2011 07:54

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

IngridBergmann · 05/02/2011 04:30

see I can breathe freely again on here...

(I don't think Larry is a bloke btw in case that's relevant)

I just caught up with the thread and Emmy has explained her perspective. While it sorts out where she is coming from, in terms of having been through multiple rapes and years of counselling, it's really sad that she started off by throwing accusations around and misquoting etc, because it meant I gave her a hard time back, and now I feel bad about it.

However she seems to be really angry about women blaming men for doing this stuff, as though that renders ineffective our own defences. I think she is well mixed up on that - just because she's ultra wary and expects any similar encounter to lead to sex, that doesn't mean we should all be so defensive.

Taking precautions yes, anticipating rape around every corner no - and that doesn't make us stupid.

It's a weird old thread for sure.

thelibster · 05/02/2011 03:26

Rhadegunde, who was the other man on the thread?

sakura · 05/02/2011 02:40

I've just found that thread.

Some of those posters really think men are monsters, don't they

They don't realise that men do actually know whether the woman they happen to be with at that time wants sex with them or not; men know that women enjoy sex and that it's not something they have to be persuaded to give up reluctantly to men.

So why would a man need to be told yes or no one way or another? Which woman would "consent" to have sex with a man who was too thick to tell whether she even wanted to be having sex with him or not??? BUt of course men aren't "too thick to tell" ; it's just that sexual predators let men down by pretending that this is what men are like.

WHy would anyone contribute to aiding sexual predators and rapists by colluding with them and pretending that men really can't tell whether women want to have sex with them or not.

Original poster

Janos · 04/02/2011 23:42

Am now doing more incoherent blabbing. What Coleysworth said!

OP posts:

Coleysworth · 04/02/2011 23:34

I admire all you eloquent posters so much. I just sit here in a state of incoherent rage when I read that kind of victim blaming shit And some prize mansplaining thrown in for good measure

Original poster

Janos · 04/02/2011 23:34

Well I admire the coolness in the face of such provocation (for want of a better word) because I can't manage it when faced with that sort of stuff. I just get so angry/upset (and incoherent).

Rhadegunde, I thought your posts were great, really, and not ranty at all.

In fact among the nastiness there were some great posts. I think SGBs last one was just great.

It heartens (that word again!) me to read stuff like that in amongst all the crap.

OP posts:

dittany · 04/02/2011 23:28

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

LadyBiscuit · 04/02/2011 23:26

Me too Rhadegunde. I lurch from thinking that they are so blinkered I can't find the words to engage but them I do and so wade in. Then get furious and rant.

dittany always manages to stay cool as a cucumber and does not engage with the mudslinging. Very commendable

dittany · 04/02/2011 23:25

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Rhadegunde · 04/02/2011 23:16

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

Original poster

Janos · 04/02/2011 23:16

Dittany, I thought a lot of the comments directed to you on that thread were incredibly nasty and you dealt with them very well. I know it's just a forum etc but I really would have been in tears at some of the things on there, they were so vicious.

I find it really distressing that people are so quick to jump in and blame the victim.

OP posts:

msrisotto · 04/02/2011 23:15

HerBeX - Don't fgs read back through that thread. It haunted me a bit last night. Comments MUCH worse than now.

HerBeX · 04/02/2011 23:10

That thread looks awful, glad I haven't got involved in it tbh

I just saw the last few posts just now, with an assertion that women need to show they don't want sex in order not to be raped.

WTF?

I just can't believe it, I'm so shocked but I simply can't bear to trawl through all the shit to find the context and reply.

dittany · 04/02/2011 22:57

This reply has been deleted

Message withdrawn at poster's request.

HerBeX · 04/02/2011 22:41

E&M, I think some people who have actually been raped, also take the same view as the bog standard rape apologists.

Because they don't want to face up to what's happened to them either. It is horribly painful to do, it makes you feel disempowered and helpless and vulnerable and frightened. Of course they don't want to feel like that, far easier to pretend it was just a bit of bad sex, or a misunderstanding, or something that wouldn't have happened if only they'd done something differently - that way, they can retain the illusion of control.

Sop that's why I'm not sure it's just about personal experience tbh.

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 04/02/2011 22:29

I don't know if that's it, HerBeX, I think it's probably more to do with people's personal experiences than generalising it out to family members etc.

What I don't understand is the kind of doublethink that allows:

a) men are so dangerous/unable to stop themselves/out of control that you shouldn't share a room/house/coffee/stroll with one without expecting him to attack you, and if he does, it's your fault

and

b) he only did it because he didn't hear you/you didn't say it properly/you didn't say it in the right tone of voice/he was whistling and looking out of the window rather than at your terrified face. If he had noticed your distress, he would have stopped.

I mean, either men in general are dangerous beasts or they're considerate gentle souls who would never dream of hurting on purpose. But surely not both?

Original poster

Janos · 04/02/2011 22:29

Thank you.

I think that's one of the things that makes me so angry. Of course these men realise - they do it because they feel entitled and because they want to. And also, because they know they'll most likely get away with it, or even more sickeningly, be praised for it.

I told my my 'friend' I didn't want to twice..his reaction was, 'well, I do'. And that was that, apparently.

OP posts:

HerBeX · 04/02/2011 22:12

I think an awful lot of women simply don't want to face up to how appallingly badly some men are prepared to treat some women, given the chance E&M.

It's scarey. Because then it dawns on them that if it's that common, then maybe their father, their brother, their DH, their DS, their male friends and colleagues, may also have behaved that badly. And they don't want to believe that they behaved that badly because they felt entitled to, so they choose to believe that they must have behaved that badly because they didn't realise they were being bad. It's much easier that way.

Coleysworth · 04/02/2011 22:11

Agree, Elephants. I've just been clumsily trying to make a similar point on 'that' thread

ElephantsAndMiasmas · 04/02/2011 21:58

I'm so sorry that so many on here have been put through this by the men who did it, and then by the people who didn't listen or told them it was their own fault.

What struck me on that thread (didn't post) was that, for some people, the only real measure of whether a man understood that the woman has said no to sex, is whether or not he stops what he's doing. If he carries on doing it, then he hasn't heard/understood, as simple as that. If you politely explained/moved away/tried to get dressed/pushed him off/said no but he carries on, the fault most certainly lies with you for not making yourself clear enough.

Some people seem to have no concept that a man can hear, understand and still continue with his rape or assault, apparently.

Original poster

Janos · 04/02/2011 21:30

Night SQ :)

OP posts:

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