Rejecting Christian Beliefs

LOL SuchProspects Snorted out my tea at ""It just seems like a classic personality disorder."

I feel sad that you are so angry and hurt by the church SAF. I would say though that although as you say many women have been hurt badly by various forms of church, there are also the women who have been utterly changed and set free (not by the church but by Jesus, but through the church) and who find not only a safe haven but a thriving community. Guess I am trying to say that it is not all bad. Like any human institution there is the bad and the toxic and the downright misogynist, but there are good models of what church should be (which of course still get it wrong all the time.)

I would certainly be highly suspicious of any version of church which caused women to be 'miserable, isolated and downtrodden and looking 50 at 30.' How sad, and how wrong, that would be, and I am so sorry that that has been your experience, because it is not how it should be. I get just as angry when I think about how 'the church' has failed people and has so NOT represented it's founder.

And breathe..... :)

Yep many years ago I was in a brethren church (not strict brethren) because it was local to me and I just thought it was a normal evangelical church. Took me a while to realise how ridiculous it was that while they had a policy of "free worship" in fact only men could speak. Or indeed teenage boys. But women just had to sit there in their hats (compulsory) and shut up.

swallowfly i was just being honest. I don't have all the answers and yes i have walked away at times. I expect alot of christians feel like this and at times i have been bitter.

so what

SwallowedAfly are you ok? I feel terrible, I almost wish I had never got involved in this thread and I'm not even advocating for the Christian church!

I'm off, I hope OP finds peace and happiness what ever she decides to do (although I have heard the Quakers are good for equality)

Was it something in particular that makes you hate the church swallowed, or a build up of stuff?

Inclined to agree swallowed.

OK swallowed, I will not take it personally. :)

I question my faith all the time, and think it's healthy. I too become angered by hard line fundamentalist views and their toxicity.

Queen - Whole doesn't mean complete, it doesn't mean no change, or no learning. It just means you haven't left out an essential bit that you dangle like a bone in front of a dog - of course you don't have to sit up and beg, but that's how you get your food.

And that's just one point with that particular god. A god that shuns most of his creation because they weren't faithful and then plays favorites with his chosen people sounds more like a bitchy high school teen from an American sitcom.

There is so little about the character of most gods that's actually admirable.

swallowedafly I want to say something in reply but am not quite sure what. I recognise some of your anger actually - I have been in various denominations of christianity throughout my life and in retrospect have felt badly steamrollered, pressured, guilt-tripped and generally persuaded into conformity by some of them.

It was the more evangelical types that made me feel like that. There is huge anxiety if someone does not say the right things in the right language and behave in the way expected and required by the group, however "nonconformist" they think they are.

This is why I am now an Anglican as I feel nicely left alone after all the hurly burly of the more demonstrative churches. I'm sure many Christians would think I have lost it, but I can say the liturgy and believe it, and not have to ourwardly show anything for the benefit of the group. I now have a pavlovian reaction against certain songs and words and actions. I am probably going to end up a hermit. I have a problem with corporate worship, and yes, with the idea that God requires it.

I hope you don't think I am using any kind of tactic when I say that I hate all that pressure to conform, however kindly or anxiously or controllingly meant, but that I am able to hold on to the message of Christianity.

People say that you can't be a Christian in isolation, Probably true, in that Christians are supposed to be trying to make a difference with regard to truth and justice etc, but some churches can be very controlling and unwilling to accept people as they are.

I'm sad swallowed that you feel I am using tactics and being superior. Far, far from it. I am not claiming to have the answers. I am not claiming to know it all, and to be 'mature'. No, no. I am on a journey as much as anyone, and merely wanted to share something of the hope I have. This is not in any way trying to force anything on anyone, I merely engaged in a discussion.

Actually I feel quite upset at your anger. It somehow feels more personal. SGB and her imaginary friend bashing I can quite happily banter with, but when I'm told I'm being defective and immature it's a little upsetting.

However, I stand firm on what I have so far said, because there is no where I have said anyone has got anything wrong.

?Why on earth would a loving creator create such a self-serving set up? Why not create beings that were already whole??

Why not give birth to 6ft tall adults, plant leeks rather than seeds, have off spring that need never learn anything new because they were born knowing all there is to know about string theory.

I can?t comment from a Christian view point but In Judaism it is believed that God created the earth and made a pact with mankind that they would continue the process of creation. God created life on earth and gave man free will to continue the process. Life is not perfect, the world is imperfect, and it is our job to improve on this.

Most people who are spiritual are seeking self improvement of some kind, are often more inclined to strive to better themselves in ways that improve the lot of others too.
That is why Jews are forbidden to decide not to have children and most practicing Jews leave an area of their home undecorated to remind them that the work of creation is incomplete.

It is important to feel as individuals that we have control of ourselves and free will and belief God doesn?t need to undermine this.

Worship, well ok if you want to, it's not for me personally, (seems too New Testament for me) God reminds us to keep to the path and reminds us that we are not special, mere mortals and we have a greater purpose in life than just getting by.